digitalmammogram

The Affordable Care Act (AKA “Obamacare”) Is Going To Save Me Over $10K Per Year

Published On October 2, 2013 | By admin |

I have written about the travesty of the American “Health Care” System before.  Our current system benefits Big Pharma and CEOs.  And the reason why the current GOP Congress has been fighting tooth and nail to get the Affordable Care Act off the tracks, is because it will make health insurance premiums go to actual health care for the insured.

I have been self-employed since 2002 and have had health insurance, on the same policy, with Blue Shield the entire time.  I am currently paying $811 per month.  My premiums have been raised frequently, randomly and excessively, particularly since they could see that their fleecing of the American public would soon be coming to an end.  They could see that with President Obama and the Affordable Care Act that the only way they would be able to continue to rape us–without even a hint of lubricant–would be to raise the premiums early and often.  Here is a brief history of MY PERSONAL PREMIUMS as a single self-employed female with Blue Shield:

ceo-pay2007                                                   $192.80

2008                                                   $219.00

12/2008                                             $242.00

6/2009                                               $312.00

12/2009                                             $379.00

10/2010                                             $429.00

12/2010                                             $467.16

1/2011                                               $481.00

2/2012                                               $552.00

10/2012                                             $630.13

11/2012                                             $725.00

3/2013                                               $811.00

blue shield invoiceWorth noting:  When health insurance companies talk about the “rising cost of health care“, take a look at their profits and what they pay their executives.  Health Care Service Corporation is the parent company of Blue Shield, my insurer.  Patricia Hemingway Hall, the CEO of Blue Shield received a 61% pay increase in 2011 to a somewhat comfortable $12.9M for that calendar year.  The parent company of Blue Shield, Health Care Service Corporation, booked a NET income of more than $1B in both 2010 and 2011.

ChicagoBusiness.com reports:

The CEO of the parent of Blue Cross & Blue Shield of Illinois received a 24 percent pay increase in 2012, to $16 million, even as the company’s net income declined, according to a filing with state insurance regulators.

 

Patricia Hemingway Hall’s 2012 base salary was just $1.1 million, but the nurse-turned-executive garnered a $14.9 million bonus. The CEO of Chicago-based Health Care Service Corp. received $12.9 million in 2011.

 

Her 2012 compensation is about 70 percent of the $23 million that the company has agreed to pay to acquire Blue Cross & Blue Shield of Montana.

 

The big bump in Ms. Hall’s pay came even though the company, which also operates Blues plans in Texas, Oklahoma and New Mexico, booked lower net profits on its core insurance business in 2012.

 

Health Care Service posted $1.01 billion in net income and $20.65 billion in revenue last year, a drop in profit of about 16 percent from 2011, when it earned $1.20 billion on revenue of $19.91 billion, according to annual financial filings. The numbers reflect Health Care Service’s fully insured business, not its administrative services-only segment for self-insured plans.

 

Despite the decline, Health Care Service has crossed the $1 billion mark three years in a row.

I apologize for digressing, but I am so angry.

But here’s what the Tea Party and the GOP don’t want you to hear.  Yesterday, October 1, 2013 marked the first day of open enrollment for the Affordable Care Act.  I called Blue Shield, my current provider, to see what my options were–although I must admit I was very skeptical.

To my surprise, I was told:

  • My $811 monthly premiums would be reduced to $85 per month
  • My $2400 annual medical deductible would be reduced to $500
  • My current maximum out-of-pocket expenses are determined by a complicated multitude of factors and would be reduced from a minimum of $4800 per year to a maximum of $2250 per year
  • My regular primary care physician visits are going to be reduced from $150 to $15
  • My lab work, x-rays, mammograms, etc. will be reduced to a maximum of $15 each–many preventative visits are INCLUDED in the monthly premiums!

aff-care-actEssentially, I will be able to pay for actual health care and not just health insurance premiums.  I will be saving at least $11,262 per year thanks to President Obama and the Affordable Care Act.  I know,  I know…  Now, since 85% of all premiums paid to insurance companies MUST be spent on health care, those poor, poor executives might have to take a pay cut.

Are you crying?  The only reason why I’m crying is because I’m going to start being treated like a human being–Thanks to President Obama and his team–AND because the GOP Congress fought so hard to take this away.  We live in a seriously fucked up society ruled by greed.

Share this story far and wide. It needs to be told.

Veruca  | Co-Founder | The Everlasting GOP Stoppers

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  • Robert Downer

    Thank you for being so brave!!

    • RuralDelivery

      This website seems to be real flypaper for supporters of: unborn baby-killing, out-of-wedlock birthing, future generational financial rape, unworkable government economics, the deadly threat of inanimate objects, to name a few. And, now, of course, you geniuses and moral giants want the Country to trust that you’ve got healthcare figured out. Don’t think so. Have fun with your group ideological masturbation.

      • Kilkee

        So a guy calling himself “Rural Delivery” fancies himself one of those hardscrabble, tough living, independent folks that has no time for Socialist Democratic schemes. Of course, he lives at the end of East Shitkicker Road in Darkest Montana, and is fine with the rest of us subsidizing his mail delivery, road maintenance, and a million other littles gifts he blindly accepts as his ‘right’ each day. Clueless.

        • Christopher Micheal Kinsey

          And you’re no better. Slinging mud around is not the answer to anything. Grow up.

          • Preston D. White

            Oh but if it needs to be slung it needs to be slung. It appears he is grown.

          • Richard Settle

            ACA is the most wonderful law to hit this nation in quite some time. One week after turning 62 my position was eliminated as well as health care coverage. My wife is recovering from Breast Cancer. Though I love living in Florida, why does my tea party governor feel that I do not need help on health insurance. Of course my lifetime of 13 surgeries puts me in a very expensive insurance pool. We NEED To stop this insanity of the right wing. Florida went blue this last election, why oh why must we live under the rule of the tea party.

          • Sandi Sorrell Niday

            I sell insurance in Florida and am certified to sell the Obamacare plans….To determine approx what your premiums will be try this calculator to see if you qualify for a subsidy.

            http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/

      • Derek Babin

        How much are they paying you? I mean your Job posting on the internet and using key buzz words to discredit people? I am very curious of your salary! Can I hire you?

        I would like you to use the key words “Bloodthirsty Republican Baby Murderers” in every comment you make on those new websites, focused on republican meeting places. I would like to pay you double of what you are paid right-now so that you do the same job that you are doing now! You could use the handle “RealAmerican”. I think that you are doing a great job as a spreader of fear and disinformation and I am in awe in of your skills!

        • Christopher Micheal Kinsey

          Gotta love ad hominem attacks on people. That’w what makes you a real man, right?

          • Derek Babin

            I am dead serious about this, I want to know how much money this person make by going on websites like this one and sling “buzzwords” around! How hard is that to believe? It must be a legitimate business and there is nothing wrong with it, I am a hardcore capitalist and I acknowledge and respect in good economic ventures! That person as every right to do his or her job and on top of that I find that it well done! Take the compliment with a grain of salt my friend!

          • sarcasticcupcakes

            Learn the difference between “sarcasm” and “mudslinging” please.

        • RuralDelivery

          You do realize that it’s the Democratic Party that supports abortion (50 million dead), that African-American out-of-wedlock birthrate is at 73% after 45+ years of Liberal Democratic Social policies–24% at the start, that federal spending is creating unconscionable debt for future generation ($6 Trillion added in the last 5 years), that Socialism doesn’t work and is dangerous to human life (100 million dead in 20th century), and that a gun is an inanimate object? Don’t you, Derek? If you’re a Democrat, man-up. You’ll answer to God someday.

          • Derek Babin

            I go to mass every Sunday and I am an ARDENT catholic. I am also a dead spot Canadian conservative, I think that men like Stephen Harper are the salvation of this country. Socialist will reap what they have sown and the american people will be punished for their failure to stop them republican and democratic voters included.

            Now we do not have this mass abortion baby killing thing going on here on our side, except maybe with those devious french Canadian bastards! I am however very angry about the people committing those atrocities.

            That said my question still holds, how much money are you gaining from posting anonymously in websites such as this one to push on certain topic, you see I think that PR is a key value of your country and I am very interested to know what kind of business you run sir or madam, you see I only wish to learn to be a skillful as you are about pushing issues like you are currently doing.

            In Christ, a potential Canadian friend.

          • chcurtis

            You do realize that Obama has cut the Bush deficit in half, and that Sweden (a socialist country, along with the other Scandinavian countries) is sucessful and has better health and life expectancy than the US? (Oh yes, and socialism in NOT the same as Communism).

            It’s also quite a stretch to call any social changes that have occurred since the 60s the product of “liberal democratic social policies”. If you want to do that, maybe you should also say the soaring stock market, the rise of the internet, and the advent of torture and rendition as government policy are due to liberal democratic social policies.

          • RuralDelivery

            Time to take the liberal blinders off:
            (CBS News) The National Debt has now increased more during President Obama’s three years and two months in office than it did during 8 years of the George W. Bush presidency.
            The Debt rose $4.899 trillion during the two terms of the Bush presidency. It has now gone up $4.939 trillion since President Obama took office.
            Do you know how to do research on the Internet? Try Civilian deaths due to Socialism.
            Failure of the Liberal Democratic social programs was well articulated by the mid-80s–but ignored by Dems.
            Death and social disintegration are Democratic specialties.
            Again, I wouldn’t want to be in your shoes.

          • Tapati McDaniels

            Analysis of claims about comparative debt (Reagan had a greater increase than either Bush or Obama): http://www.snopes.com/politics/politicians/nationaldebt.asp

          • Richard Settle

            wow, you are a classic. I mean right down the rhetoric line of the wingnuts. First , I do realize you read numbers but to just see the number and do no research is , well just ignorant. Bush did not fund his lovely war nor did he fund his Medicaid bill. This is up to Obama to pay the Bush tab and of course as a class act leader he is doing so and not shoving down the throat of the wingnuts. I mean really can you explain the theory of relativity to a mentally challenged child? You cant but we can still help them live .

          • Richard Settle

            I adopted a child along with my biological child. My sister adopted two children. For those that just throw out , again a number with no brain activity, you are missing a major point. We love to preach about killing babies but if that is really your true concern, then help the mother who you are forcing to bear that child. I would go into abortion protest and ask people how much they contribute to abandoned child care, how much they spend monthly on helping feed these children and perhaps even treat them like they are indeed beings in the eyes of your God. Think , my friend,. You indeed show passion and a level of cognitive thought. Apply your passion and read the truth and you may find a legitimate voice

        • WTexas

          The baby killers are the democrats. Wendy “Abortion Barbie” just announced her Texas bid for governor. She will loose badly.

      • Jessi

        Well said Rural Delivery

      • Tapati McDaniels

        You do know that a lot of the ACA was influenced by Republicans, right? Individual mandate, for example, was a Republican idea.

  • Stephanie Allison

    The whole reason I couldn’t afford insurance for the longest time was because I was self employed. When I went back into the workforce, I choked when I saw that it was $600 a month just for me and my boyfriend. Then I got the bomb. Because I was a victim of domestic violence, they refused to cover me. No joke. Apparently if you’ve been a victim, they can choose to not cover you due to “High Risk Factors” such as DV. I’m so happy that the Affordable Care Act got rid of that. I might be able to go to the doctor for the first time in almost a decade.

    • Owen Johnson

      Stephanie, that so sucks! It’s in the same league with companies that won’t hire anyone who doesn’t have good credit (among young adults, how many have good credit?) and apartment complexes that will leave an apartment empty rather than rent to someone who’s credit score isn’t high enough (excuse me, if their credit was that good and their income that high, they’d be buying a house). None of these businesses can figure out they’re cutting off their noses to spite their faces: turning down business is never the best business plan.

      • Jake

        Actually, in the long run, it has been proven that the credit ratings and risk factors profit the companies. Meaning that they avoid much more risk by turning down your demographic/condition group than accepting them, and make much more money in turn.

      • aimer

        Having no credit and having bad credit are two completely different things. I’d never rent to anyone with bad credit, especially if they were young. They’re way more likely to skip out on the rent, damage the property, etc. There are plenty of responsible people of all ages who make an OK income (not rich) who don’t want to be property owners. Not everyone wants to be tied down to a house. But your kooky idea that businesses are missing out by not renting to people with credit is ignorant. Bad credit = irresponsible and I’d rather have my property sit empty waiting for a good tenant than rent to a bunch of irresponsible people who will end up COSTING more money in the long run and lower the quality of life for the residents.

        • Al Gardner

          That’s pretty dumb. Bad credit comes from numerous factors often having nothing to do with irresponsibility. Just look at the many Americans who have lost their jobs and homes because of this economy. If having bead credit was such a risk, then why do they offer the same people credit at a much higher interest rate that makes it even more likely to default?

    • Economist2011

      the traditional health care system clearly benefits the shareholders and not the consumer.

      Go ACA! It’s about time!

      • Jake

        The ACA benefits me, the shareholder, a ton more than you know.

        • Richard Felton

          EXACTLY!!!!!!!!! if premiums go up then that means the company makes more money, which means the shareholder gets more money.

    • Secgu76

      So you “might”be able to go to the doctor for the first time in a decade? You’re not sure yet? Then what exactly are you happy about?

      • Celestial Sojourner

        You are apparently unable to recognize sarcasm. You are challenged and you missed her point.

    • Christopher Rant

      When nearly every insurance company has a seven-year lookback limit, by what criteria were you uninsurable for a decade? Was it because of a specific injury or because you were were with an abuser? I would like more information to be more familiar with the tragic specifics of your situation.

    • aimer

      Good luck with this “health care” if you actually need to use it. $600 a month for two people is nowhere near what you’re going to actually be paying. Just wait and see. And remember, just because you have “insurance” doesn’t mean any doctor has to or will accept it. Ask anyone on public healthcare how easy it is to be seen.

  • Jenni S.

    Yay! Glad to hear it. If only others will go check it out for themselves instead of listening to the rhetoric. People are going to be able to save so much money and actually be able to afford to visit a doctor.

    • BOBO

      Yes…many people will be able to afford a normal checkup with a doctor…if they are still around…and only afford that.

  • Cletus

    Just one question – how much of the difference, if any, is being made up with an income related subsidy?

    • Tapati McDaniels

      The article clearly states that the company lowered the price as a result of ACA, no subsidy entered into their price change. That would be a separate transaction for anyone who qualifies for the tax credit. But hey, if we can subsidize wealthy oil corporations why not individual health care?

      • Cletus

        Sorry, I don’t see where the article “clearly states that the company lowered the price as a result of ACA,”, just that her premiums would be reduced, but not the means of that reduction.

      • Elvis

        I think this is part of the problem that people will find out with Subsidies. If they can find a way to give John Doe a subsidy each month then going through the Exchange / ACA wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing. The problem is that for someone like me (family of 5, making less than $50,000) you qualify to go to the Exchange, find out you will pay roughly $800-1,000 PER MONTH for a decent plan and ALL anyone wants to tell me is that “The average cost is $328 (or whatever price in your state)” or “Don’t worry, you’ll get a tax credit / subsidy.” Sure, it may be $328 after you do the math when you get your credit back, but you’ll be forking out a lot more than that if you enter the exchange each month. I’ll personally qualify for a a subsidy of nearly $7500, which is nice to help offset the payments, but guess, what, MOST, if NOT ALL of Americans who are in my shoes (making less than $50,000) cannot afford the hit of $1,000 per month in premiums to get decent coverage. How do you pay for that?!? Yes, you’ll get money back on your taxes in March of 2015, but how is the average person going to be able to afford to pay for their monthly premium?!? I’ve searched high and low and nobody will tell me. Is everyone simply going to go into Credit Card debt? So, I’m going to have to ruin my credit to afford health care for my family?!? I don’t know about you, but it’s not about increases or decreases necessarily, but about HOW THIS ACTUALLY PLAYS OUT MONTH TO MONTH. I simply cannot afford the montly premiums and wait for the big credit a year later. I’d prefer they lower the montly premiums somehow and make this more “Affordable.” Anyone else feel my pain?!? Just my two cents.

        • Tapati McDaniels

          The tax credit can come in the form of advance credits sent to your insurer which you then account for when you file taxes. http://www.irs.gov/uac/Affordable-Care-Act-Tax-Provisions-for-Individuals-and-Families

        • Sandi Sorrell Niday

          The way the subsidy works is that the subsidy will be paid DIRECT to the insurance company each month…you do not have to front the money……..happy to answer any further questions for you, I offer insurance in Florida but I took the Obamacare certification so have a basic knowledge

  • gschloff55

    Ok when I checked what our premiums would be under ACA it showed we’d be paying almost twice what we’re paying now, so maybe I didn’t check it properly?

    • nothamomma

      I know that my fiance’s insurance went up and the coverage went down…

      • Mickey Wn

        same here. Much worse coverage & premiums 3 x higher

        • Richard Felton

          how is that “get to keep your insurance provider” working out? you can keep them, but won’t be able to afford them. sooooo, you will have to sign up for obamacare. see how that works out?

          • Sander Barber

            Look again. The ACA is NOT a policy unto itself, it is a clearing house/shopping tool for available insurance plans. It is STILL private insurance.

          • Richard Felton

            while premiums rise and coverage drops? i guess we could keep our insurance companies. even if we can’t afford them anymore. how is it that so many people can’t see that this is a scam?

          • Mickey Wn

            sorry, I don’t qualify. I’m over 400% so I’m uninsured

    • canucanoe2

      You may be elogible for subsidies if your income is less than 400% of the poverty line.

      • Christopher Micheal Kinsey

        That means most of the US.

        • canucanoe2

          The median income in the US is $50,000 which is about 400% of the poverty line so, no, that is not most of the US.

          • Michael McTiernan

            If the median income is 400% of the poverty line, that literally means that most of the US qualifies.

          • calipidgious

            Your $50,000 doesn’t take into effect the number of people in the family. The more kids, the higher that number goes before you hit the 400%

          • canucanoe2

            We were talking about individual plans.
            I believe the line for a family of four is $94,000

      • WTexas

        And who is the schmuck that will end up paying for your “subsidy”?

        • Preston D. White

          You if you make good money. Get over it this is a community not some third world nation where we leave people to die or go bankrupt anymore. Goofball!

          • Christopher Rant

            No, it is not community. It is theft.

          • Robert Scott McKnight

            No, allowing people to use emergency room services without paying thus raising the price of care for all of us is theft. In the long run, this will actually drive costs down, because the bills will get paid. Idiot.

          • Economist2011

            so is traditional insurance. it takes money from a pool of people and then pays out to the medical community.

        • canucanoe2

          I don’t get a subsidy. I would gladly help pay towards a subsidy so someone else can have insurance. BTW…christian principles have nothing to do with my willingness to pay as I am an atheist.

          • Lonene Crawford

            You are paying for a subsidy with the high prices of health care that are built into premiums prior to Oct. 1.

        • Lorraine Tucker Mack

          I would rather see my tax $$ go toward helping someone in need rather than toward huge corporate giveaways.

        • Tapati McDaniels

          Do you also complain about subsidizing rich oil companies whose CEOs jet around and live in mansions? They and other businesses have been getting your tax dollars for years without a protest. I’d rather see mine go to help people go to the doctor.

        • Holly Johnson

          Me.

    • Shiree Ames Goins

      gschloff55, did you check? Did it double? Or go down? Some people are being blessed by Obamacare, others are being sucker punched. I just want Congess to come up with something reasonable. I think that people should have the freedom to chose. We should not be mandated, taxed and our homes have a lien placed if we can not afford insurance. And, will a law like this spiral into other liberties being taken????

      • T-Bird

        Shiree, you are a burden to society and that is why our premiums continue to go up. I am glad “everyone” will be required to get insurance. Of course, the poor have an exemption and we will once again be taking care of them.

        • Red Wolffe

          If our largest employers in this country (like Walmart…) were forced to pay their workers a living wage, NO ONE would have to take care of ANYONE… we must provide the means for the success of our weakest links before we can complain about the unsuccessful.

          • Todd Hines

            Why would you work for Walmart if they didn’t provide you a living wage?

          • Don Stack

            to at least eat.

          • Lee Flier

            Some people can’t find any other job. In many places Wal-Mart has put a lot of places out of business that used to pay a living wage.

          • amy

            I love that people should have healthcare – I live outside the US and pay 10 euros per month for my health insurance. Another nice thing that I can do is if I have a headache I can go to the pharmacy and buy 1 tablet of medicine I can buy what I need. So finally the US is doing something for their people Yay. but I am replying to this conversation about walmart because everyone says Walmart put other businesses out of business (by the way I would never step foot in a walmart I am anti walmart) but it isnt just walmarts fault – it is the PEOPLE in the communities that put their local businesses out of business by CHOOSING to support walmart and buying their products – if everyone would shop locally and maybe pay a little bit more since small biz overhead is higher and buy less stuff – it the obesession with buying stuff and having things that more then likely arent needed – buy what you need – if people are complicite and complacent that is what you get – it is time people take a little bit of responsibility for this mess – you have the power to spend your dollars where you want – no one puts a gun to head to shop at walmart – if only every person would put into practice what they say they believe in

          • Bob Bedford

            I was educated for free in Britain in the 60s under the then labour government which means I was able to earn a great salary as an engineer, and contribute well in the countries where I lived. My parents weren’t rich, and so under the current U.S. system, I would probably not have been given the opportunity to develop any special skills. That would limit my employment opportunities to what I could get. Admittedly, if you’re ruthless and don’t care much who you stab, you can always make money.

          • Shiree Ames Goins

            It is the middle class who are sucker punched in the US. We work hard HOWEVER, my sons do not receive a dime to go to college when the lower class receive not only enough money to go to college but get an apartment, laptop and daycare. How about providing the BASICS for those who need it AND SOME assistance to those who make enough to own a home but not pay for their childrens college.

          • Dorothea Butts

            By your logic above, I could say, well, look, I worked hard and I have a 4 bedroom house and that person who only has a 2 bedroom house is getting help for college. They didn’t work as hard as I did, why are they getting help. It is much too complicated to demonize a whole demographic group. And to be honest, I understand at a certain level what you are saying…we were always right where you say you are.

          • Bob Bedford

            I agree totally

          • calipidgious

            I don’t know what low income college kids you know but my daughter who is a sophmore would probably fit into that low income category still has to come up with $13,000 a year to go to school after her loans, the small pell grant she can get and there is no free room. Her college is $34,000 a year and that is average in our state. Our EFC on the FAFSA, btw, was $0. So with a $0 FAFSA EFC we still have to figure out how to cover a gap of $13,000 a year. So this low income college student is getting screwed just like your, non low-income students. Stop blaming the poor and stop assuming you know what they get. Fact is it will take my family far longer to recover from the debt than any middle class family but it’s something that must be done.

          • Bob Bedford

            I agree that the US middle class is losing ground because of miss-management and greed at the top. I’m not sure I approve of the term “lower class” and I don’t know of any examples of disadvantaged people getting free housing, and education. If this were so easy, why don’t the many homeless people you see get these benefits?

          • Christopher Rant

            Unless your teachers were slaves and someone donated the food, then you were not educated for free. There is a cost to everything; it depends on where and when and how the money is collected.

          • Bob Bedford

            Thanks for your comment. Maybe the use of the word free was loose, but the government funding education by focusing education into a VALUABLE skill set returned MORE benefits for both myself and the communities in which I lived than would the more usual current education philosophies.
            My main issue with personal wealth funded education is
            1: It reduces the possibility of a large part of the gene pool from contributing to the culture.
            2: It does not focus development of skill sets where they are needed. E.g we may have more lawyers than we need, but not enough high quality scientific and engineering people.

            Having said that, the labor party funded most of their projects by outrageously high taxes on the rich. that was probably as damaging to Britain as does corporate lobbying and political polarization in the USA today.

          • Bob Bedford

            Money is an effect not a cause. If a culture has the spirit and motivation to do great things, money is just the tool. not the deciding factor. The current fashion of putting the bottom line first is at the root of many of the problems in the west.

          • Christopher Rant

            That is a ridiculous statement and has no basis in any responsible reasoning. It shows complete ignorance. Money is the materially transferrable form of time, thought, labor, consideration, intellect and forethought. It represents the scarcity of both time and decision, effort, intellect and application. There is only so much of all that to go around.

            Anyone who says it is not a deciding factor is a fool, sir.

            Your diatribe is meaningless.

            And the author of this article still absolutely LIED about her plan and the “savings.”

          • Bob Bedford

            You are confused by the difference between money and value.Money is just a rough symbol for value. Investment in a focussed education pays forward into a community that is able to produce better goods and services, Which can be fed back into the community.Many of today’s financial transactions do not increase the total value of the culture but merely distribute wealth toward people who are already wealthy. Money is not always a materially transferable form of work, as in the case of theft or fraud. Your other mistake is that there is only so much work to go round. Quantity and quality of work are variables which are under the control of any of us at any time.Finally I’ll be civilized enough to refrain from calling you a fool simply because we disagree.

          • Christopher Rant

            I will use the word “fool” when it applies, and you are mistaken with your economic summary here. It is less than half an image. I believe you are grossly misdefining money and its effects and application; it is a rather common bit of miseducation from the Left these last few years and it is sad it is being taught this way. Money is ALWAYS a materially transferrable form of work, effort, material, etc. ALWAYS. Your theft example actually reinforces MY argument; it is inherently transferrable or there would be no theft as it could not be called theft. I made no mistaken the defninitio of “work to go around, and I am not sure what you are trying to say at all with your critical passage as it makes no sense at all. As I said, money is the summary and exchangeable medium of scarcity. Your claim of “there is only so much work to go around” is exactly my point; it is scarcity, it is representative, it is created by work, cost and opportunity cost. Thus, I am right. marginal labor can always be performed, but it stops being performed when either a clock runs out or there is so much labor the value declines toward (or to) nil. That is exactly what is supposed to represent, that is exactly what I defined, and that is exactly what it is. Value is not an empirical measure; it is a perception. And it is qualified by different individuals by money. A mattress might be worth $500 to one person, but $1000 to another. A day’s labor might be worth $100 to the person paying, but $200 for the person performing; the mediation, mitigation and negotiation if differing sets of values is the heart of capitalism (or really ANY economic model, even Marxism and Maoism, though those models do not rely on individual negotiation to find a balance). Your “occupy”-inspired recap of moving wealth is errant as well, as you do not see that anyone actually CAN be the recipient of money as it rewards their efforts; it is government and resources that alters a pure exchange landscape. I made no mistake; I simply acknowledged and utilized a much fuller sense of an economy and did not mistake hurt feelings for values or costs.

          • Bob Bedford

            You are a time waster. I’m not going to read or reply to any more of your posts

          • Christopher Rant

            Education is not and has not been a waste of my time. I do not believe that same of yours.

            And the fact remains that what the author of this article claimed is impossible, and is an outright lie.

            And money is, was and always will be a deciding factor. What I did not say is that it is the sole determinant. It is a factor in a complex process, and ultimately is a necessary component of any decision process or analysis.

            I am sorry that you have taken me correcting you as a waste of time. I do hope you educate yourself sometime in the future.

          • Bob Bedford

            You are confused by the difference between money and value. Money is just a rough symbol for value

          • Christopher Rant

            I am not confused at all. Value is subjective. Money is a reflection not just of the subjective value, but is a physical manifestation of scarcity as well.

          • Shiree Ames Goins

            I would think that people work for Walmart to put food on the table and to EARN their money verses accepting a government handout. However, in the grand ole USA, you can sit on the couch all day, enjoy your babies and free food stamps, free cell phone and free health insurance. I am FULLY supportive of those who need it but there are SO many who could work but then again, why work when we are taxed to death and forced to pay for insurance when we can have it handed to us for free.

          • calipidgious

            Why work when working for poverty wages means that you can’t get any help any longer. You make just a little too much to qualify but not nearly enough to live without hating every aspect of the grind that poverty is. There are a gazillion ways to see any social situation. I understand what you say but if these people’s employers would compensate them with a living wage, it would lessen the burden on everyone.

        • Shiree Ames Goins

          LOL, seriously T-Bird, I am trying to have a “conversation”. Unfortunately, you, like President Obama are unwilling to have a discussion on this.

      • Preston D. White

        If you make enough money to have insurance you should have it. Until we can take healthcare away from the profit driven marketplace we all must carry insurance. I have written papers about this topic and we in this nation pay a greater percentage of our income to taxes and healthcare than any other nation yet we still do not have healthcare for all of our people. It really is said the profits that are getting sucked off the top by so many. I don’t think anyone should become multi millionaires off of the sick and injured. People who make tens of millions a year off healthcare need to be stopped. Single payer system is the only way to go then if you want to pay cash for services beyond what the real people have good for you.

        • Sherry Rupe

          You obviously did not do much research. England has an Inland Revenue rate of 60% and 17.5 % VAT. The US don’t come near this rate. Germany and Australia are about the same. So we do not pay greater amount of our income to taxes than any other nation. Because you research is faulty on the income tax all other the other facts you are presumed bad until proven.

          • canucanoe2

            Preston combined our pre-ACA healthcare costs with taxes. It is the healthcare costs that make the combined figure so high. I think you may want to improve your reading comprehension skills.

          • SKV2

            Sherry, poor people don’t pay anything near 60%. Check your facts.

        • Christopher Rant

          A profit driven marketplace means the smartest and most ambitious go into medical practice and research. Without it, you get a bunch of morons from the University of Peshawar who will be in charge of your pancreas.

          • Michael McTiernan

            Please take a moment to look up where the US stands in terms of longevity. Of developed countries, we’re easily one of the unhealthiest. Every other country on that list with the exception of Mexico has universal, publicly-funded, quality-of-care-driven healthcare. You can throw around xenophobic insults all you like, but it requires you to completely ignore what’s actually happening in the rest of the world.

          • Lee Flier

            Actually even Mexico has public healthcare.

          • Michael McTiernan

            Hey, you’re right. Mexico achieved universal healthcare in 2012.

          • Christopher Rant

            Yes, but they call it “Going to California.”

          • Charles .

            Lol, thats why the jump the border pregnant and wanting free healthcare here!

          • Dan Thompson

            This made me laugh. Yeah, sure they have it. Perhaps you should go to Mexico and see how great it really is. For that matter Somalia has universal care too.

          • upchuck9899 .

            I live on the Mexican Border. Trust me you don’t want there Care. Once took a guy to the hospital who said his side hurt. He got shot twice and only had enough money to get one bullet out and they left the other one in. If your pregnant you have to prepay.

          • Christopher Rant

            Have you seen firsthand how it doesn’t work? I have.

          • aimer

            Hmm. Yet people are denied care constantly. Unless you mean about how Mexicans drive across the border to see American doctors at no cost then go back home.

          • http://www.disneymovieslist.com Jason Forthofer

            After that, go look up who provides the best care in the world. Universal care has only worked in small, very wealthy countries. The rest of the cases you have major debt and low quality care from the program.

          • aimer

            And I can tell you from experience that Scandinavian healthcare is NOT the utopia you imagine. You all are about to get a huge attitude adjustment when you start getting “obamacared”. If Norway, one of the richest countries with a tiny population can’t do it, we certainly cant

          • Jake

            You forget to mention that every other country except for the U.S is in a declining and failing economy.

          • PaddyBoyFloyd

            Have you been living in some sort of bubble? Our economy while recovering has hardly not been declining since the 90′s.

          • aimer

            You’re completely wrong. Those studies are done by people who are making money forcing the US into crap single payer

          • derek sibert

            How sad to only be motivated by money, instead of elevating the common good. No matter what Ayn Rand said, you cannot harness greed for the greater good. I believe greed steals a lot our best and brightest to that pseudo science, economics, to get their BS MBA’s which contribute zero to society on the whole. We humans haven’t got this far by only looking out for number one. It was through community and looking out for the greater good that we have advanced. This selfish, petulant attitude exhibited by the far right is not an America I want to live in.

          • canucanoe2

            Exactly right. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

          • Christopher Rant

            No one with any relevant experience with bureaucracies can possibly believe that.

          • aimer

            Dear God, help us all from idiots like this

          • Ronnie Caldwell

            You cannot legislate morality. You’ve already created a society that’s sitting back waiting on the government to be their baby’s daddy.

          • derek sibert

            The tea party candidates would love nothing more than a Christian theocracy and are definitely into legislating their warped sense of morality that Jesus and Ayn Rand want everyone to just look out for themselves with guns, kick the poor, and have all wives barefoot and pregnant and in the kitchen, preferably deferring to their husbands whims.

          • Mickey Wn

            LIES! I just received a letter from Presbyterian Health insurance stating my policy was being canceled due to ACA requirements. The new policies that I’m supposed to sign up for when this one ends 12/31/13 start $500 more than my current policy & up to $1,000 more. I can’t afford it. This is such bull.

          • calipidgious

            And have you checked to see if you qualify for subsidies? If not, I suggest you do so. Until you do, you have no idea what it will cost you.

          • hiswife325

            And just how are those subsidies being funded? Where does that money come from? Oh gosh. The taxpayer. That’s right.

          • calipidgious

            fine, then don’t take them. Quite frankly if we can fund stuff for the rest of the world then I don’t feel bad funding healthcare for our own. The fact that you resent it but say nothing about funding endless war says more about you than anything else. So then suffer.

          • powerbottomjoffrey

            I’d rather my tax dollars go toward someone’s health coverage than towards war, oil, or the food stamps needed to compensate for the heinously low pay for Wal Mart workers while their executives pull in obscene amounts of money every fraction of a second.

          • calipidgious

            Listen fuckwit. It is a matter of priorities. My priority isn’t to give every giant corporation another tax break and damn loophole so they can rape us 10 ways till sundown by withholding the taxes they OWE. Maybe if we didn’t spend more on defense than more than 20 other countries put together we could afford to treat our citizens like human beings. We need to invest in our own country now and that means no longer bribing the countries in the middle east not to attack Israel. How much money do we blow through a year on that? So when you sit around bitching and moaning about poor and sick people finally having a chance to get some friggin healthcare, you just seem like a callous bitch because why aren’t you bitching about how that shit is funded? Huh?

          • Mickey Wn

            Obviously I don’t qualify. I REFUSE to pay for the higher premium with over double the deductible. As a teacher told my son, “Someone has to pay for all the other.” I won’t!

          • Jean in MN

            Call your insurance company . . . after you read this.

            http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/insurance-companies-misleading-letters-obamacare

          • Christopher Rant

            This proves that the only thing you know about the Tea Party is the lies that someone like Piers Morgan spews. You have never met or talked with one, have you?

          • jm313

            I’m an independent in politics both major party’s suck and you are a typical stupid lefty! If men in the Tea/Republican Party want women being oppressed by there husbands and working as a housewife in the kitchen then why do so many women who are married to a Republican man have a career? Huh? Could it be cause what you say is complete bull to scare ignorant women into voting for the Democratic Party? Yes! If so many Republican men want women to be oppressed then why do so many Republican Party members think it is horrible what Muslim wives in the Middle East go through with there Muslim husbands. You dumb latte sippin far-left wingers try to make Christian fanatics in the Republican Party out to be like Muslim fanatics when the truth is the Muslim fanatics make the Christian fanatics look like Mr. Rogers from Mr. Rogers Neighborhood!

          • urkidding me

            Ummm, you did say you were an independent, right? You sure sound like you swing more right…..

          • Christopher Rant

            This is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard, not to mention that 5000 years of human history proves you wrong. Unchecked greed is bad, but the opportunity for advancement and betterment is without a doubt the primary motivator in all of human history. The rest of your comment is just naive greeting card silliness.

          • derek sibert

            I’m sure you’re a real joy to be around and thanks for the insult. Everyone loves a smart ass know-it-all. They always open people’s eyes to the truth, but that’s not why you comment. It’s an ego thing or you like ranting at people; either way you aren’t winning any converts or even trying.
            For the record, I don’t take anything from anyone. I’ve been self employed for 10 years plus and receive zero subsidies and I am penalized for not having kids. I understand decisions have consequences and I deal with them. If you really want to make an impact with your big brain then interject some kindness into your words; otherwise you’re just blowing hot air. I know it’s tough knowing everything.

          • Christopher Rant

            I don’t know everything. I just know more about this than you do. Sorry you take it so personally.

            You just admitted that you are hurt by this program. It doesn’t seem you do a very good job of taking care of yourself, then.

          • Christopher Rant

            What do you do for a living? Can I have 80% of it? No? Then I will take it. If you resist you are a greedy jerk who doesn’t care about anyone.

          • upchuck9899 .

            Then get out of America. America is the place were hard work and determination can get you everything you want. I shouldn’t have to give up anything for the common good. If some one is too poor to get what they want too bad for them. This isn’t socialism. I shouldn’t expect to give one cent to anyone.

          • derek sibert

            You don’t like my opinion so I should leave? I’d rather stay and make a better place to live for everyone, even you Chuck.

          • Randy Bair

            You do drive on roads or do you live so far up in the hills that you just live off the land…hate to say this, but you are an ASS!!!

          • aimer

            I’d be more than happy to buy your plane ticket out of here. No one is obligated to pay for others. People who want to help will, and far more generously than if thy are forced

          • Bob Bedford

            Why would you call doctors from Peshawar morons? Doctors from the indian sub continent are among the best in the world.
            Although I don’t know what their golf handicap is!

          • canucanoe2

            Bullshit. Research scientists make crap compared to doctors and research takes more brains. Get real! Physicists are among the smartest people on the planet and even THEY don’t make what doctors make. Also, what about the Drs that work at free clinics. They’re not making a killing. You are so full of it it isn’t even funny. In addition, the US ranks 37th in healthcare outcomes. If money played the role you say it plays, we would have the finest care in the world. Try again Mr. Repugnican.

          • Christopher Rant

            We rank so low because people don’t have decent jobs and have not been raised to actually plan ahead for things. Yes, there are tragic cases, but those are not the rule. I’ve been working with doctors for the last nine years and have seen your weak, weeping, patronizing statements routinely proved false. Yes, we need to fix the system, but it is pathetic that people think the ACA helps anyone but make you slaves to a bureaucracy incapable of caring, paying attention or making things better. So before you call anyone names, perhaps you need to spend some time in a reality where you aren’t crying that you are a perpetual victim and actually try to fix things; your perspective would change greatly and give you some experience to speak of.

          • Christopher Rant

            You must know some really horrible researchers to make that claim. And what is the operating cost for a research scientist? How much do they pay in malpractice insurance? Care to compare their take home? I am related to two research scientists and both make more than the average doctor. And I work with some of the best doctors in the country every week and see what this is doing to their practices.

            And what most of your analysis ignores about the “outcome” is now much of a burden it is for people who do not pay into the system and then interject themselves into it at the most expensive junction because they know the bad care they get here is better than the good care they anywhere else.

            The system is broken and needs to be fixed. The ACA doesn’t fix anything, it just applies a broad stroke of mediocrity to everyone, and fools like yourself cheer it on without having the ability to think a half-step ahead, much less two steps.

          • Jake

            Yeah but doctors go to school for many more years and are required to do many things that a physicist couldn’t, like a surgery under pressure with the patients life at risk.

          • Dorothea Butts

            Most financially ambitious,yes. Smartest, or most dedicated, not so much. Dr.Salk is a perfect example.

          • SKV2

            The way that works is the smartest and most ambitious then soak us dry when we have fatal diseases only they can cure. Darwinian healthcare is a pretty ugly business.
            Also, we HAVE a profit-driven marketplace right now, and tens of thousands of people die for lack of access to healthcare. Does this seem okay to you? If so, buy stock in insurance companies. But the rest of us are going to try helping our fellow Americans be able to exercise that right to life and the pursuit of happiness.

          • Christopher Rant

            The principle reason that people die is because of the results of their own decisions. Health care is a factor for many, but by no means all or even most. Your “help” means you are a willing sucker and are going broke trying.

          • SKV2

            If you think you won’t die if you make all the right decisions, you have an unpleasant surprise coming up.

          • Christopher Rant

            I never said that. But from what I have seen in the last decade are people griping because they actually have repercussions for the decisions they have made – drug addiciton, alcohol abuse, smoking, diabetes, heart disease… 90% of the time these are results of conscious, bad decisions. The fact that you want to emote and cry for them doesn’t change their source, nor excuse it. There will always be tragedies and problems, especially with bureaucracies, but I think you are grading yourself on how much you care and not how effective you are. One without the other is just folly. Welcome to the ACA.

          • SKV2

            I don’t want to cry for them — I want to pay my share of taxes so that everyone can get coverage and nobody dies or goes bankrupt because of lack of coverage.
            You apparently don’t want to do that, and you obviously think compassion is useless. So what are you doing to help?

          • Christopher Rant

            Compassion is not useless. It is the fallacy of your entire position that compassion equates to an effective operational policy. Clearly, it does not. Compassion is emotive, it is not functional. It is inspiration, it is worthless as an operation. Compassion is endless, whereas nothing in the real world is. There are finite number of doctors, tongue depressors, time, operating rooms, chairs and even patients.

            Before anything else, we need responsible people. That trait of responsibility needs to come first. When that is part of the gestalt, other processes get easier.

            Please realize that your “compassion” is nought much more than whining. When there is an accident, a tragedy, a disease, your compassion does absolutely NOTHING to cure it. It is self-serving and only exists to make you feel better and just a tad superior or fortunate. No one was ever cured by a prescription for compassion. Science, thought, action, people with finite time and material objects build hospitals and discover treatments. Those with compassion vote for “hope” without a freaking clue as to how to accomplish anything.

            You do not hold a monopoly on humanity just because you weep for someone. You want to save a life, you don’t do it with empathy.

          • upchuck9899 .

            Totally agree. If you get sick because of smoking or need a liver transplant because of Drinking or Diabetes because you don’t take care of your self then you are putting your self before other people and making them pay for your well being.

            I am a little over weight and would be fine with them saying hey you are over weight. you are going to pay your base premium plus this extra charge. At 6 months intervals you can come in and take another physical and if your healthy(er) we can reduce or take off the charge.

            I did things right. I study and went to college. Got a BS degree and still had a crummy job out of college for a couple of years till I got a decent one that I had to move 3000 miles away. My parents worked hard to raise me right and helped me as much as they could through and after college. I will hopefully do the same if I have children some day and continue the cycle of responsibility.

          • urkidding me

            Hey, I heard that “compassion” speech from Spock on some Star Trek episode….

          • Christopher Rant

            Well then you should have learned something back in the 70s. You have even less excuse for your ineffectiveness.

          • PaddyBoyFloyd

            You do realize that people get sick from no fault of their own. My own mother had breast cancer in both breasts and was forced to undergo a double mastectomy and is thankfully cancer free for 10 years. With out adequate coverage, she would’ve never known she had cancer and then would’ve faced even more expensive treatment and probably would’ve died due to catching it too late. Oh and she never smoked, never drank more than a glass of wine about 3 times a month and walked 5 miles a day.

          • Christopher Rant

            And what is your point with that anecdote? As tragic as the circumstances are, emotive whining about your mom does nothing at all to make sure she has affordable care, access to doctors or even has an insurance policy that doesn’t cost her $15,000 a year before it pays out one single dollar in insurance. You more than anyone should know that you mom needed (needs?, though I hope not) a system that actually works, and that people whining and congratulating themselves for “caring” while voting in a policy that restricts everything your mom needed is a bad decision.

          • Christopher Rant

            Just think… is your mom treated and cured by doctors and a system that rationally diagnosed, treated and followed up with her, or is your mom made better by some twenty something crying for her circumstances? Which one actually treats and cures?

          • Jim N Kirstin

            Chris, you DID say that. Christ, are you blind? Read your comment.

          • Christopher Rant

            No I didn’t. I did say that personal responsibility and foresight mitigate most of the ails, and by extension that frees up resources to deal with genuine tragedies. What you YOU think “health care is a factor” means?

          • Jim N Kirstin

            “The principle reason that people die is because of the results of their own decisions.”

            That’s exactly what you said.

            Genetics. Modified foods. It’s not all about their own decisions.

            What do YOU think “health care is a factor” mean?

            Healthcare is the fucking factor. Jesus.

          • Christopher Rant

            I said that because it is true. Most disease is because of lifestyle choices. Your paranoia about modified foods already betray you are a paranoiac zealot. How convenient of you to completely ignore what I said about actual tragedies or personal responsibility. Access to health care can be an issue, but if people lived more responsibly, they wouldn’t need it in the volume or immediacy they do now. Why can’t you put 2 and 2 together? Or you do think there is some great Mondanto boogeyman who will strike you down if you do?

          • Jake

            Actually I bought stock in healthcare because of the reform. Seeing as the people who run the insurance companies wrote up the bill it was a pretty safe bet. Due to the bill their stock is up over 114% in almost every case as of today.

        • Shiree Ames Goins

          I do agree with your comments, Preston. However, who makes the determination “if you make enough to have insurance”?
          For a person who now has to make an additional $600 a month (for example) for health insurance, to them and their current budget, they may not be able to afford it.

          • canucanoe2

            If they are that low on the income scale, they will pay far less than $600/month.

          • Christopher Rant

            Actually that is not true at all. If you make more than $39,000 a year there are no subsidies. Most people making 40K a year are barely getting by in a lower-middle-class area and not getting by at all in any of the Top 25 major cities… and now your plan just took another $7200 a year from them. So, how is that “fair?” How is that “far less?” How is that “affordable?” The biggest supporters of the ACA are the ones who are most ignorant of its workings. Go look it up and learn something and come back to defend it – if you are remotely responsible or informed, you will find you cannot.

          • LittleBritches

            That would be a single person making $40k pays a premimum of $2535….or $211 a month for Bronze plan or they can possibly find a private policy for less…..this is way less then a lot of other previous insurance plans.

          • Christopher Rant

            In what state? In California, those figures do no apply at all. And the ACA plans have literally four times the deductibles the private plans did. The cheapest, worst Bronze plan in SoCal according to coveredca.com is $264 and no subsidy. The a plan with a $3500 deductible was available pre-ACA for $145. So that isn’t cheaper at all, is it? My plan is now considered a “Platinum” plan and went from $303 to $637. I can get the Platinum ACA plan from the same Kaiser provider for $740, so even on an apples-to-apples comparison, the ACA plans are more expensive across the board. Of course, as a 42-year-old male I am glad I am paying for “free” birth control pills and maternity coverage.

          • Jean in MN

            “Health insurance, like all insurance, works by pooling risks. The healthy subsidize the sick, who could be somebody else this year and you next year. Those risks include any kind of health care a person might need from birth to death—prenatal care through hospice. No individual is likely to need all of it, but we will all need some of it eventually.

            So, as a middle-aged childless man you resent having to pay for maternity care or kids’ dental care. Shouldn’t turnabout be fair play? Shouldn’t pregnant women and kids be able to say, “Fine, but in that case why should we have to pay for your Viagra, or prostate cancer tests, or the heart attack and high blood pressure you are many times more likely to suffer from than we are?” Once you start down that road, it’s hard to know where to stop. If you slice and dice risks, eventually you don’t have a risk pool at all, and the whole idea of insurance falls apart.

            It’s worth noting that virtually all employer plans cover maternity care for exactly this reason: a unified risk pool. And no one seems to complain about that, for some reason.”
            http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2013/11/why-a-childless-man-should-have-to-buy-maternity-coverage/index.htm

          • Christopher Rant

            No, I am complaint that I have to pay for MY maternity coverage, as that is what I am forced to pay for. A male cannot get pregnant, so therefore should not be in the maternity pool. I wasn’t forced into it before. Women get pregnant; they pay for it and the actuaries count it in women’s rates. Men can get prostate issues, and it is counted in their. This system you are rationalizing for discounts the prostate from women but adds in the pregnancy in men.

            And then what you write is sheer rationalization. Women cost more to insure than men. Period. They live longer, they have babies and they generally have more health issues. But to make things “equal” men get charged more as not even the idiots who made the ACA can figure out a way to just make women cheaper. (PS – employer plans cover maternity care FOR WOMEN, at least until 2015 when suddenly they have to cover it for men as well, which again makes no sense at all.) (PPS – Wait for the real costs to skyrocket when the Obama-granted Big Business Exception terminates. Then you really will see the damage you cheer for.)

            You have a very bizarre – and White House Talking Point-ridden – recurring theme to your posts. The recitation of their points is as boring as it is a carbon copy.

            The biggest point you refuse to see is that Veruca absolutely lied in her article about the ACA saving her money. If her plan changed as much as she claimed – the legal threshold is $5 – than her plan would be cancelled and not altered as she wrote above as that is the legal requirement.

            But I not only watch the news, I read and have been analyzing the ACA for the last four years as part of my job. And what you advocate will crumble, and already is… in case you aren’t paying attention.

            What will you say when the MN subsidy runs out in two years?

          • canucanoe2

            Why do people like you lie about things that are so easy to check? The poverty line for an individual, an INDIVIDUAL, is $11,490. 400% of that is $45,960 NOT $39.000. http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/13poverty.cfm

            I have also noticed that you fail to source any of the nonsense you are spewing. Where did your $600/month figure come from? Yes, I think the poverty line should be adjusted according to what the cost of living is in each region of the country and it should take the cost of living in cities into account as well. No legislation of this magnitude is going to be flawless coming out of the gate, but you seem to think lying to prove your point is necessary. Could it be because your position is weak?

            If repugs like you, yes I called you a name, but it is accurate, so stop crying. If repugs like you don’t like the law why not work to get legislation through that will correct its weaknesses? No, jerks like you, (Oh no! Another name!) would rather say, “It doesn’t work!”, and call for the dismantling of it rather than work towards common sense solutions THROUGH THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS. No, repugs like you would rather lie and obfuscate than roll up your sleeves to find a solution. You said in another post that, “Describing the mandate as a Republican program is propaganda”. Yes there is an individual mandate in Romneycare, and yes, it is the Heritage Foundation’s baby. Propaganda my ass! Here is a CONSERVATIVE source that supports my comment on the individual mandate. http://www.forbes.com/sites/leonardburman/2013/10/01/would-the-government-be-shuttered-if-obamacare-were-romneycare/

            Wow! Two unbiased and verifiable sources to support my position. It is because you lie so much that I disrespect you with name calling. Were you to bring honesty and integrity to the conversation, I wouldn’t be slingin’ mud. Try again, repug.

          • jm313

            Hey moron the Kaiser Family Foundation has a subsidy calculator for Obamacare and it says if you are single, age 42, with $39,000 income you get no subsidy.

          • canucanoe2

            Well JM, it would appear that YOU are the moron. This comes from the FAQ section of the site YOU sourced.
            “Does the calculator provide definitive estimates of what people will pay under the health reform law?
            No. The calculator is intended to illustrate how families in varying
            circumstances may be affected by the tax credits and limits on age
            rating included in the law. Premiums will vary from region to region and
            based on assumptions insurers make in setting premiums.”

          • Christopher Rant

            And in no state does a 42 year old male with $39,000 income gets a subsidy. They just have to spend between $110-360 a month MORE to keep their same Kaiser plan.

            Please, your anger is not an excuse for not having correct information, canucanoe2.

          • Christopher Rant

            If you were able to use the federal ACA website at all, you would see that a 42 year old non-Native American male gets no subsidy. Go learn something.

          • Jean in MN

            You may not get a subsidy, but you get you get good real, not “catastrophic only” insurance at a reasonable price. In Minnesota, a 42 year old (since ACA, it makes no difference whether male or female) making $39,000 per year would not be eligible for any subsidies, so would have an annual cost for the Silver plan of $1,920.00, or $160.00 per month.

          • Christopher Rant

            First, the “no difference” issue is just plain stupid. Women cost more than men. Period. Women live longer and cost more, and not just because of childbirth, than men. So there is no equality in what you illustrate, just folly. So the government makes it up by charging men more.

            Second, you do a great job of parroting the BS from the White House Talking Points of last week, the same points that failed for being less than truthful or analytical. What you insinuate about the “crappy coverage” is a lie as well, and neither you nor the people who wrote it have any clue about that plans are being cancelled. They were not, by and large, the plans you describe except in Kentucky who had a very successful major med insurance plan in place until the ACA.

            Third, Minnesota has the lowest ACA plan costs due to a federal “special subsidy” (aka, a bribe) that expires in two years. Between that sunsetting and the statistical imbalance of low sign ups, your rates will more than double in 25 months. So don’t get comfortable or cocky.

            Fourth, “Veruca” who wrote this original post still has lied about her plan and how much it will save her. It is an abject lie that flies in the face of all examples and process. For example, if her plan changed ANY payment of hers more than $5, the plan by law must be cancelled. Her claim of “my plan changed!” is a lie. Her claims of her costs are a lie. This entire article is a lie.

            And your plan is the cheapest of all that is available, and your state has sold about an estimated 6000. You have had over 90,000 cancellations, and your ACA plans are about 18% more expensive on average than the pre-ACA plans and your deductibles are nearly 300% higher than the average MN deductibles were.

            So think about that please.

          • Christopher Rant

            Ma’am, you have not a single clue what you are talking about. You definitely have not been watching the news.

          • Christopher Rant

            Wow. You are one very sad, angry and defensive person.

            First of all, $600 comes from 1/12th of $7200, which is going to be the average cost – from the CBO, by the way – of executing any of the comparable ACA plans in my zip code. In California, that is the cost increase that non-subsideized families are subjected to. The ACA makes responsible families pay far more for far less, with higher out of pocket costs and fewer doctors. On all fronts, it is the opposite of what the Act claimed to provide – remember when Obama said it would reduce the cost to every family by $2500? Well, you cannot find that to be true by ANY rational analysis or mass exemplar. Your passion and vitriol is centered around sustaining a lie, advancing a lie, and being ignorant of the real world effect. Even the New York Times today (Sunday Oct 13) has refuted your propaganda.

            Now, you might be one of the poor that does benefit from this, but you do it by literally taking from someone else. If you have no sense of responsibility or guilt over that, that is your own psyche’s disability.

            And if you were paying attention, there are many different indexes in many different states as to the cutoffs for subsidies. Nor is your $45K figure sacrosanct or even accurate. It is obvious you have not actually made it though the ACA quagmire websites to see where they say the cutoffs are for your eligible plans. Nor have you done any basic math to see how it impacts a middle-class family. The news is even full of those accounts, but you choose to ignore it. Sorry, but your ignorance and hatred is your problem, though it does become everyone’s burden.

            And you have no claim to be an advocate “of the democratic process” if you have been paying attention. Harry Reid has prevented votes in the Senate – even from his own party – because he knows he will lose between 7 & 13 Democratic Senators on many fiscal issues. I know it is hard to believe, . Also, you have chosen to ignore even Max Baucus, the architect of the ACA, who has called it an unworkable trainwreck and designed to fail; he advocates starting over and regretted his role so much he didn’t even run for re-election and chose to retire with an apology to his constituents.

            In short, you are cheering for the Titanic plunging into the debts because you think there are enough lifeboats to go around.

            You take more pride in calling people names than you do in having facts. Your world must be really sad, really small and really broke. Unfortunately you will soon have a lot of company thanks to the programs you advocate.

          • Christopher Rant

            Here are the states I have checked that plainly state there are no subsidies for a 42 year old male with $39,000 income: New York, California, Michigan, Illinois, and Kentucky. Nevada used to state that, but Harry Reid just got a waiver for his entire state for two to three years so the information is no longer applicable.

            Does it make you wonder why the legislative gorilla behind ACA just got his state exempted from it? If you stopped being so angry for a few minutes and traded it for being inquisitive, I am sure you would be quite disappointed.

          • Jean in MN

            In Minnesota, a 42 year old (since ACA, it makes no difference whether male or female) making $39,000 per year would not be eligible for any subsidies, so would have an annual cost for the Silver plan of $1,920.00, or $160.00 per month.

            http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/

          • Christopher Rant

            Care to tell us what these plans cost before the ACA? Or what the deductibles are now (6350) or were (an average of $1650)? And what are the costs once the special MN-only Federal special subsidy runs out? Sounds like you have fallen for the bad marketing.

          • Christopher Rant

            I am just wondering, you nameless canucanoe2, if you have been paying attention to Forbes, the WSJ, the NYT, the LA Times, Washington Post, Washington Time… or even Bill Maher these last two weeks.

            EVERYTHING you advocated has been shown to not only not work, but be inherently unstable. The programs you advocate the most are already failing, even by their own weakened internal standards.

            And yet all you can do is recite the silly work “rethuglican” like it is either correct or clever. How very sad.

            Because all you are doing is advocating for things that have already failed. And that is worse than rationalizing since it shows an even bigger break from reality. So good luck with that.

          • Jean in MN

            In Minnesota, a 31 year old making $39,000.00 would get no subsidies, and pay $1,680.00 per year ($140.00 per month) for the “Silver” plan. That’s a bargain.

            http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/

          • Jean in MN

            Silver level coverage is more comprehensive, covering on average 70 percent of enrollees’ total costs.

          • Christopher Rant

            More comprehensive than what? The Blue Cross plans here in California that covered 80% of costs with a $4000 deductible? OR the Kaiser plans that covered 80% of costs with a $2500 deductible? Because the ACA forced those plans to be cancelled.

            This is just further proof you have little clue what you are talking about.

            Please watch the news. Really. Please.

        • aimer

          What on earth are you talking about? The US had low taxes, especially compared to the “errrbuddy got dems sum free docturr” countries who pay more than 60% of their income in tax. For mediocre health care, far far below what you would get here in the worst ghetto hospitals. People like you are allowed to vote for things when you don’t even know what it means. You just hear FREEEEEE and jump in line for your share. It never occurs to you that most rich people are that way because they WORK. They have no obligation to support lazy people who make bad choices in life.

      • Mike E Welham

        The “homes have a lien placed on them” is one of the many lies that are out there. You may have your penalty withheld from your tax return but the IRS is NOT going to put any liens on any of your property. Please find out the truth from the ACA website rather than continuing to share Republican “talking points.” If you can’t afford insurance, you can get a subsidy under the law to make premium payments. And, how is this taking any more liberties from you than Medicare or school taxes or the taxes you pay to subsidize banks, oil companies, or corporations that continue to ship jobs overseas (taxes that you can’t NOT pay)?

        • Shiree Ames Goins

          Mike, I will double check my comment regarding “home liens”. However, as far as Medicare tax for example, we are talking a small percentage of each paycheck. This “affordable health care” can NOT even compare. And as for “school tax”, it is a CHOICE to own a home and when you do, you know you are also signing up for said tax.

          • Mike E Welham

            The Medicare percent is higher than the 1% penalty (“tax” that you must be referring to) you’d pay if you make too much money to qualify for the lowest rates of health insurance AND opt to not participate. Obviously, you are one of those whose income is so high that you can afford to dismiss the part of the population who can’t afford a home, let alone healthcare until now, and you resent helping those who are less fortunate mainly due to the economic policies of the wealthy, the elite, and corporate “people” that have caused such a divide between the “haves” and the “have-nots.” I’m sorry you resent having to part with any of your stash, but I’m happy for 30 millions Americans who can now get healthcare at an affordable rate and for the 47 million whose “preexisting conditions” have prevented from getting ANY treatment at all until now. Please save your whining for when you and your other elite friends get together because the rest of this country doesn’t want to listen to it.

          • Shiree Ames Goins

            Mike, obviously you are one of those who need to belittle others and make assumptions instead of engaging in dialogue.

          • Celestial Sojourner

            Obviously you are too thin skinned to get his point. He’s right, you’re wrong. You are simply spewing talking points the Koch Brothers told Faux Noise to program into your feeble brain.

          • Christopher Rant

            Actually, all of your figures are grossly inaccurate. If you got info from anything other than bumper stickers, you would see how much reality invalidates what you believe.

          • Pamela Moore

            You must also consider those who work fulltime and don’t make enough to pay for health insurance and the rest of their monthly bills. It’s one thing to work all year and make ends meet, buy what you need not what you want and NEVER GO ON VACATION cause there is not extra money for that! You tell me where the money is suppose to come from in a town where our taxes are 12.75 % and our economy is based on tourism and our small town is a college town who hires College Students and not Locals cause they can pay them less and 30 a week part time or even less to avoid insurance! I’ve lived in this town my entire life and MAKING AMERICAN”S BUY INSURANCE is against what my brothers and sisters died for while fighting for our country! HOW ABOUT YOU! If you like a controlled Monitored and Dictated world then you need to move to China!! Leave us AMERICANS The HELL ALONE~!

          • Mike E Welham

            If you want to talk about what Americans have fought and died for, I am 4th generation career military. My father fought in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam; my brother won the Silver Star dying as a Marine in Vietnam; my grandfather fought in WWII and Korea; and I spent 27 years in the Air Force in Vietnam through the first Iraq was (the “real” one). So, come down off your high horse. You might be the kind of person who is the reason for the ACA. The rest of us pay for your uninsured ass (and I think that’s an appropriate title, given your rant) every time you or your family goes to the emergency room and can’t pay for yourself. It’s high time people like you get off the gravy train and stop expecting everyone else to take care of you. So opt out, pay your $95 per year to at least cover some of your welfare, and quit bitching because 30 million Americans are now getting healthcare where they couldn’t before (that COULD include you if you’d wake up and realize it), people with pre-existing conditions can get treated, and women don’t have to have their benefits spoon-fed to them by old, white males who don’t really care if you live or die. Believe it or not, I DO care about you and, while this isn’t perfect (it might be if someone actually negotiated and came up with fixes rather than trying to repeal it), it’s the best we’ve got. And, it’s the first time anyone has tried to do something to remedy the status quo in the healthcare world.

          • PaddyBoyFloyd

            The problem is that people with insurance don’t understand that treating people with out insurance is causing their premiums to rise. They don’t DIRECTLY see that as a cost, so they simply ignore it, but it is a huge reason premiums are as high as they are. Hospitals (places that treat the uninsured b/c they have to – at a much higher cost than a Doc in the box office) charge insurance outrageous rates to make up for the non-payment of uninsured bills.

          • Mickey Wn

            Wow Mike! Your way of thinking has cost me my insurance. Before you go judging people, you should gather facts. Where are you looking at these premiums that are lower than what people are paying now? Prove it! From the information I have received the last two weeks, I’ve learned I can’t afford the new 12.5% tax increase this next year due to ACA. I’m the person these laws kill but then again you don’t care if my “rich” kids have health care. YOU only care about yourself & those that don’t work 60 hours a week to earn a living for their family… as long as YOU don’t have to pay for it. No where in the Constitution does it say you can tax someone who makes more than you to give to someone else. YOU Mike are what’s wrong with America.

          • canucanoe2

            If you rent you still pay that tax thru what you pay your landlord. That’s why there is a minor tax deduction for renters.

          • calipidgious

            The home liens is a falsehood. The IRS has not been given the right to do any such thing! Do check but I am quite sure you will find that it is not something anyone has to worry about.

          • Christopher Rant

            The IRS is commissioned to resort of one of over thirty methods to collect monies due. Liens are one of them. There is no statute that says the IRS will lien your home due to medical care taxes/penalties, but there is no statute that says they cannot do that when medical care taxes/penalties are part of your debt to the IRS.

          • canucanoe2

            Yes, a lien can be placed, but let’s be clear about what a lien is. Let’s say the penalty is $350. If a lien is placed on the individual’s house, it doesn’t mean the gov’t can take your house. It just means that when the house is sold, the $350 owed to the IRS will be deducted from the funds of the sale before the house seller gets the money. You didn’t lie HERE, but it was a bit disingenuous not to explain this to people who don’t know what a lien is. You make it sound like they can take your house.

          • Christopher Rant

            I did no such thing. I assumed people know what a lien is. If they are discussing it, then they should know. I do not think that is an unreasonable expectation. And my explanation stands. Liens come as a result of gross debt, regardless of source. There is no exception in the ACA that says a lien cannot be put on any property because of penalty debt just as there is no line of code that says they can take your equity because of ACA-apportioned debt.

            And if you pay attention, a lien of any amount can trigger the forced sale of a home. It is a matter of jurisdiction, and currently a pretty major issue in Central California were outstanding liens of over two years are allowing municipalities force the sale of the home (with the overage going to the owner of course) or the debt paid. While sometimes the lien can stand until the sale (like workman’s liens) of Th.e property no matter now long, governmental debt carries a different pattern of recourse.

          • canucanoe2

            Bullshit. A bank or any creditor with a lien can force the sale of your house, but not the IRS. A quote from the article: “Even
            if you have an IRS tax lien on your property, this doesn’t mean the IRS can force you to sell your home or that the government has taken over your property.”
            http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/irs-tax-lien-on-your-home.aspx
            Once again you have muddled the issue as you bank on peoples ignorance of the subject. Of course you don’t cite any sources for your BS because unless you are citing Faux “news” it is virtually impossible to find a credibble source to back up your lies and obfuscations. Try again.

          • Christopher Rant

            http://www.irs.gov/irm/part5/irm_05-017-002.html

            Read the code yourself. There are certain thresholds as to what happens when there are liens. If a lien is over 50% of the value of your home (it is referred to as real assets, which usually means anything) there are any number of repercussions. Never did I say or even insinuate that the IRS would take someone home because of $250 of a lien, or even because of ACA-associated indebtedness. Most liens historically are forced by local governments, which are allowed to consider ALL liens against any property as part of their evaluation, not just the debt owed to the municipality. Nowhere did I ever say that IRS WILL take anything. I was explaining liens and the fact that IRS debt is not selectively enforced depending on how that debt originated – a debt to the IRS is a debt to the IRS no matter what the cause. And there is no provision at all anywhere for barring liens and the resulting actions, if any, because the debt came from ACA penalties. That is what I said, that is what the law is. I am sorry you did not understand that.

            Despite your profane and bizarre reactions, you have no facts to contradict that point, because there are no points to contradict that point. You are just squirming and being strangely defensive. I pray you are not a CPA, CFA or accountant with your strange reactions to law, process and elementary dialogue.

            So again, you have a very strange, misleading and narrow view of what you are trying to explain.

            I think you are being so obstinate just because of your baseless hatred; it has motivated you to become irrational, not to mention incomplete.

            You discredit yourself with that Faux News silliness. You just make yourself look like a small minded propagandist, which is hypocritically what you accuse others of being.

          • canucanoe2

            The difference between you and I is that I prefer to use colorful language in my insults while you prefer to demean me in a more formal way. And, no I am not a financial expert, but I DO know how to read.

            You said, “… you have no facts to contradict that point, because there are no points to contradict that point.” Well here are my facts.

            This is from 5.17.2.2 (03-27-2012) of the tax code. Of course you didn’t cite the part, chapter or section that supports your allegation. I expect no less from a person of your sort. So now I have given a private source and a gov’t source to back my argument.

            “The lien (or “sticker”) does not change the ownership or other qualities of the property to which it is affixed; it merely identifies the property as having some kind of claim against it.”
            You said, “And if you pay attention, a lien of any amount can trigger the forced sale of a home.”, and you also said ” Never did I say or even insinuate that the IRS would take someone home because of $250 of a lien.”

            I tire of your dis-ingenuousness.

          • Christopher Rant

            I think you need to re-read things, and this time take the time to understand them. What you quoted explicitly reinforces what I said. By the way, you also chose to ignore my passage where is clearly said most forced sales are done by local municipalities. The IRS needs a criminal proceeding or conviction as part of the debt. And municipalities can have their own criteria for lien sales.

            It is you who jumbled a lot of differing statements together into a lie I am sure you just repeated in your head until you popped a vessel or two, then responded to that echo.

            I think you take more pride in being angry than you do in being right. It is making you look quite sad.

            I also did, however, provide a link that spelled out what happens when there are liens over 50% of a property assessed value (not the market value, but assessed value).

          • Daniel Driscoll

            As a builder, I understand leins quite well. Putting a lein on a property might take 50 years to collect, if you are still alive.

          • Sander Barber

            A question, just out of pure curiosity, would you be willing to pay double that small percentage for medicare taxes if it meant you were automatically covered? As in, not dependent on the whims of your employer or the Insurance company, no longer tied to the Employer by the fear of losing the Healthcare?

          • gschloff55

            My mom when she was alive was only getting $700-ish a month on Social Security, Medicare which shouldn’t cost seniors a dime, took $105 out of her meager check. That’s not a *small percentage*. I only get $466 a month, if they take that amount out for Medicare it will really hurt.

          • Jean in MN

            The IRS can’t go after you if you don’t pay the fine

            Section 1501(g)(2) of the Affordable Care Act specifies that the IRS cannot subject taxpayers to “any criminal prosecution or penalty” for refusing to pay the mandate fine. Also, in contrast to normal tax levies, the IRS cannot “file notice of lien with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section.”

            Basically, the only thing the IRS can do to make you pay the mandate fine is to take it out of your withholding, or withhold it from your tax refund, if you’re due one. So if you don’t participate in the withholding process, the IRS has no way to collect the mandate fine.

        • Christopher Rant

          You mean check the same ACA website that explicitly says that all information gathered can be given to any law enforcement agency?

      • Economist2011

        if you can’t afford insurance, each state has an expanded medicare coverage for poor people. So what you said are lies.

        Freedom to choose doesn’t equate to coverage. The traditional system had the one-sided freedom to choose to NOT to cover you, leaving people with pre-existing conditions or bad credit unable to get any kind of health care no matter how high they are willing to pay.

        Exactly what liberties are at stake here? NONE.

        Get your facts straight.

        • Shiree Ames Goins

          Enonomist2011, I am not talking about the POOR. I am talking about the middle class. You can have a two parent income but still not afford $600 a month for health insurance!
          You are correct, there are some benefits to this healthcare but then there are some things which are NOT. I am addressing topics which I believe are NOT beneficial.

          • Economist2011

            Under the traditional system, you don’t have “affordability” or the right to get covered. So I would dare to say the middle class got it better.

            At least with ACA, you have a sliding scale of subsidization based on your income. the traditional system: jack squat.

        • Sandi Sorrell Niday

          Actually not all states expanded Medicaid…Here in FLorida there is no additional money so many people will be uninsured because they make too little.

          Here is the table to determine eligibility for subsidy in FLORIDA

          1 Person $11,490-$45,960
          Family 2 $15,510-$62,040
          Family 3 $19,530-$78,120
          Family 4 $23,550-$94,200

          One person making less than $11,400 or husband-wife making less than $15,510 will not get a subsidy nor will they get Medicaid….

          In Florida only families with children have a shot in hell of getting Medicaid. Adults without children are excluded no matter what the income is, unless over the age of 60.

          • Economist2011

            you can thank Rick Scott’s compassionate conservatism for that free market solution: denial of coverage.

          • Richard Settle

            Sandi, your information and feedback are quite welcome. Thanks for helping most of us. I would like to make my voice known in Florida and have sent e mails but no response.
            Now that I am on SSD, though I receive tax credits they will be useless since I no longer will be paying tax on my limited income. So Rick Scott gets me anyway,

          • Sandi Sorrell Niday

            Richard Settle if you have SSD do you not have Medicare coverage?

            You may not have enough income to pay taxes but you can still get the subsidy (unless you have Medicare) Below is the chart. I am happy to answer further questions

            Want to know if you qualify for a subsidy? see below for the income limitations.

            1 Person $11,490-$45,960
            Family 2 $15,510-$62,040
            Family 3 $19,530-$78,120
            Family 4 $23,550-$94,200

            The subsidy is called tax credits but in reality it means the government will pay the premium for you each month, up to the amount you qualify for.

            Here is the calculator to see if you qualify. Use adjusted yerly income.

            http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/

          • Richard Settle

            Sandi, thank you once again for being on this site to help others. I just researched it and yes what i read is as you stated it. The term “tax credit” threw me off and I am certain I am not alone interpreting what the term means.
            Yes I will get a subsidy and I love it.
            Talking with a right winger yesterday, I offered the following:
            I get chest pains and say I am going to get medical help. Now do you prefer I go to the hospital, incur a bill of say $10k. The bill is given to me and I say please give it to the taxpayer. This was I pay NOTHING and get the most expensive care in the US> Or you could ask me to pay an amount out of my SS and also incur cost for co pay. Which route shall i go?
            Thanks SANDI and I am not the only one saying thanks.

          • Sandi Sorrell Niday

            What state are you in? I am an agent in Florida who took the certification course to help people get coverage through the exchange.
            The bigger the subsidy you qualify for you will also get a corresponding amt of help paying co-pays and deductibles….
            The coverage will not be effective till Jan 1 so no rush to make application, I would wait at least 30 more days till the system is actually working. Let me know if I can help in any way.

            Oh, in your scenario above with the $10,000 hospital bill you would not be able to pay……no, the taxpayers would not pay it, the hospital simply writes it off, thereby increasing costs across the board which are in reality paid by the insurance companies who pay the bill of people with insurance. Which causes the price of insurance to go up.

            What will be different KNOW with ACA is that the government will be increasing taxes to pay for all the subsidies. ANd insurance rates will go up because the insurance companies have to make enough to pay all the medical bills for the influx of so many sick people. Insurance companies are mandated to spend 80 cents out of every premium dollar collected on actual medical bills……so, as they pay more medical bills their costs go up PLUS the 20% for operating costs. Its basic simple math but most people are overlooking that.

          • Economist2011

            you can thank Governor Rick Scott for making that happen…screwing the poor.

          • Sandi Sorrell Niday

            I despise our Florida governor but I know why he said no to the Medicaid (along with more than half the country) Florida simply does not have the money to pay for the program…..Florida has NO STATE income taxes. Our coffers are empty and Scott is trying to balance the budget and get us out of the red…..again, I do not like him at all and did not vote for him….can’t wait to see him leave.

          • calipidgious

            Yes and when the people of Florida vote next, they should be sure to note that their R politicians screwed them out of the chance to have that coverage. Voting has consequences.

          • Sandi Sorrell Niday

            More than HALF of the country opted OUT of the extra Medicaid coverage, not just Florida……the majority did not want it. Each state sets its own Medicaid qualifications because it is THE STATE that actually pays for it. In Florida we do not have individual income tax so do not have the funds to pay unlimited Medicaid. While it is an ideal situation that everybody have unlimited accessible free healthcare, that is not the reality for our country (or any country)

          • calipidgious

            most likely said by someone who safely has insurance or access to it. There is no waste in Florida’s spending that could be cut to help those in need? I highly doubt this. How many of those sates are run by R’s who hate this law and therefore want people to suffer under it so that it will fail? My state has widely been considered a state that will opt out until the state bi-partisan commission created to come up with recommendations said yesterday, that it should be implemented. So there is another state off that refuses list. There is always more to the story than half hate it or half love it. It’s not so black and white as we can’t all have healthcare. Tell me that when its your loved ones who are sick and dying for lack of access to medical care that won’t destroy them financially for life, if they live very long. Then you’ll more likely see the shades of gray that make your view fiscally responsible and morally repugnant.

          • Sandi Sorrell Niday

            I actually have a handicapped adult daughter on Medicaid and 2 family members who desperately need healthcare but do not qualify for Florida’s current Medicaid system because they are adults without children…

            My handicapped daughter’s Medicaid coverage has been cut 3 times in the past 2 years and is scheduled to be cut again beginning in Jan.

            The problem in Florida (as in many places, but Florida was one of the hardest hit) is that when the Real Estate market crashed our property values dropped more than half….that means property taxes were reduced more than half…..most of our industry was Real Estate, construction or tourist related and guess what? Its dead…….People are really suffering in Florida….Whole neighborhoods are vacant…..While it would be nice to have everything we all like to feel we deserve, someone has to pay for it……where is the money supposed to come from? As much as I hate Gov Scott he at least has a business background and his reputation is as a bulldog and I know for a fact he ruthless when it comes to profits….I think he will get Florida out of the hole but it has been painful to be a part of all the cuts……I see first hand what it is like to not have money but I realize it is not about ME or just my family but the greater long term good of our state (and country for that matter)..just wanting something or thinking we are entitled to something is not enough, we have to know how to PAY for it…..what is happening in Detroit could easily happen to our country…….

            The reason so many are AGAINST Obamacare is not because they don’t care about people, its because its a poorly developed program. Currently, all the people who could have FUNDED the program have been exempted…..the amy of premiums coming in will not be enough to pay the claims…..where will that money come from? I suspect by greatly increasing the taxes of everyone……it has to come from somewhere, its simple math……in the first 12 months of implementation the premiums for anyone on the Obamacare plan will skyrocket.. have you run YOURSELF through the Obamacare calculator? Try it and see what YOUR premiums are going to be….Oh Wait, I bet your employer pays your premiums, right? Guess what? those premiums will increase astronomically once the employers are past their current EXEMPTION. I don’t see how anyone can afford the premiums under Obamacare………I pay for my own insurance (every penney of premium and first $5,000 of expenses because I have $5,000 deductible) and I will not be able to join the Obamacare plans because It costs 3 times what I am paying now for the same plan……I am finding that most people who think the ACA is so great, assume it will mimic what they are used to seeing on an employer plan, low deductibles and low copays……NOT! I am certified to sell the Obamacare plans so have access to the premiums, provider networks, etc.. People are really in for a letdown…….

            For you to question my morals based on a assumption shows your level of understanding……I suggest you do a bit more research.

          • calipidgious

            Your assumption is wrong,. I have no insurance because I have a pre-existing condition. I haven’t been able to get insurance in over a decade so I pay those bills. And I won’t sell out myself or the people I care about or my fellow man when if our country would stop funding the war machine at the levels it funds it at, we could fund free healthcare for all. Its priorities, not inability. I am really sorry that you have felt that you have had to choose between the state being solvent or your family members being healthy. And even sorrier that you felt your family members would have to come second. That’s not the thinking of someone who lives in the richest country in the world or it certainly shouldn’t be.

        • April Dawn

          Actually look it up. I believe it is 26 states now that do not have expanded medicaid. So how many people does that equate to who will still not be able to afford healthcare? The figures out there are still hovering very very high.

          • Lonene Crawford

            Actually, the states who do not have expanded medicaid, don’t have it because their republican governers’ refused it so that people would not be covered. that was 100% coverage by the government that they turned down to keep people from receiving care they need!

          • April Dawn

            Lonene you are partial correct, however the Government does not pick up 100% of the increased costs. The states that said that they did would not be expanding note it was due to the increase that the states would have to contribute. Since as you know many states are in trouble with their budgets some are even bankrupt already. These added costs could not be covered. The federal government would pick up the tab for most of the Medicaid expansion when it is implemented in 2014, but states would be required to pay for 10 percent of it by 2020. Though a countrywide expansion would provide coverage for some 17 million Americans who otherwise do not qualify for Medicaid, some states, including Florida, Mississippi, Colorado, and Pennsylvania, say that paying for even 10 percent of the expansion is too much for their tight budgets.

          • Lonene Crawford

            You do understand that the government picks up the bulk of the cost for medicaid for all states? The millions of people without healthcare are not all poor, are not all sick. Some are uninsured simply because of the prior high cost and being at the mercy of the system. These states you named have republican governors, who already receiving massive monies from the federal government and siphon off money meant for the poor for other reasons while denying basic health care to the neediest in their state. These states collect way more in federal funding than the contribute.

          • April Dawn

            I understand a lot more than you obviously think I do. You also have not read all of the posts I have put on here. I will not be able to afford Obama care nor will many others. My roommate is unemployed and his quote was as high as mine LOL He has NO MONEY. Read the posts. If people are just making end meet how do you expect them to pay for premiums and out of pocket expenses that will be a mandate? If you do not you are penalized $95 or 1% of your income whichever is higher. That means is you make over $9500 a year you will pay more than $95 for a penalty. If you make $11,490-$45,960 as a single person you have to pay the premiums , Out of pocket and co pay with no subsidy or medicaid in 26 states. So if they opt out they will pay between $114.90-$459.60 in penalties and it will go up every year. The money you are speaking of goes to Medicaid for the state. Show me where it gets siphoned off by states. We do know however that 67 million was “lost” by the IRS that was set aside for Obama care ($67 million allocated to an IRS slush fund for the purpose of rolling out Obamacare is unaccounted for, according to a report issued by the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration.) and the amount put in a “slush fund ” was 488 million. That money was siphoned off of other programs. I suggest you back up what you are saying by doing some research. Also are you aware of the added taxes and changes that are being implemented to cover these subsidies? Where do you think that they come from? They come from people paying taxes. So .. we are paying for the subsidies. Do you also realize that your premiums will be paid for with after taxed income instead of before taxed income? That is another change. So keep blaming and not researching. I prefer to to research and become informed.

          • Lonene Crawford

            Actually I have researched the law. It has been 3 years. Also, I have participated in groups to learn about the law because I believe it is a great thing. We have a difference of opinion, and I can agree to disagree. Sorry, they won’t be my premiums I am retired and receive the Medicare coverage I contributed to for 45 years of my working life. I do however think this is a great law for those who have fallen through the cracks of insurance coverage in the past because of illness and they can’t pay the prices of what they are offered. Enjoy your day!

          • Christopher Rant

            No groups were formed to learn about the law. Groups were formed to advocate for the law. There is a big difference.

          • calipidgious

            You know every group in the nation that was formed in the last 3 years?

          • Christopher Rant

            I read the White House BS on the matter. And the ACA publications. And the governmental communications with the doctors I work with. I have not seen anything to contradict my statement.

          • Jake

            Actually the states not participating include Majority Leader Harry Reid and various other Democrats. So you can’t blame it all on the republicans. Montana, Maine, and Nebraska are examples of states with some Democrat control that aren’t participating in the expanded Medicaid.

          • Economist2011

            Well the law needs improvement on coverage. But the Republican alternative…covers even less people.

          • April Dawn

            and what alternative is that? They do not have a bill that was shoved through that I know of :)

          • canucanoe2

            “They do not have a bill that was shoved through that I know of.” Shoved through? The original bill had a public option. O couldn’t get it through because of republican opposition so we went with the individual mandate which is a

          • Christopher Rant

            Describing the mandate as a Republican program is propaganda. In no way did the MA plan act and function, or forced individuals and businesses, to function as the ACA does. Your statement is deceptive, like saying that since Zebras have hooves they are really horses.

          • Jean in MN

            GOP ideas included in Obamacare:

            ® Allow health insurance premiums to vary based on participation in proven employer wellness programs (i.e. Charge more for smokers)

            GOP Source: …
            H.R. 3468, Mile Castle [R-DE] (9 GOP co-sponsors)

            ® Medical liability reform ( Provides grants to States to jump-start and evaluate promising medical liability reform ideas to put patient safety first, prevent medical errors, and reduce liability premiums.)

            GOP Source:
            S. 1099 Burr [R-NC) & Ryan [R-Wi] (13 GOP co-sponsors)

            ® Extend dependent coverage to age 26

            GOP Source:
            H.R. 4038, Rep. Dave Camp [R-MI4] (27 GOP co-sponsors)

            ® Automatic enrollment by employers in health insurance (i.e. Requires employee opt-out, not opt-in)

            GOP Source:
            H.R. 3400, Republican Study Committee bill (54 GOP co-sponsors)

            ® Community Mental Health Centers

            GOP Source:
            H.R. 3970, Mark Kirk [R-Il] (12 GOP co-sponsors)

            ® Mechanisms to improve quality

            GOP Sources: Sources: H.R. 4529, “Roadmap for America’s Future Act;” S. 1099, “Patients’ Choice Act;” H.R. 3400, Republican Study Group bill; S. 1783, “Ten Steps to Transform Health Care in America Act” (Enzi bill)

            GOP Sources of Obamacare policy:
            H.R. 4529, Paul Ryan [R-Wi]) (14 GOP co-sponsors)

            http://www.whitehouse.gov/health-care-meeting/republican-ideas

          • Christopher Rant

            Do you really go out of your way to parrot propaganda, or does it just come naturally? OR by chance are you paid to cut and paste.

            There is absolutely NOTHING that contradicts anything I said. All you do is try to divert attention from the plain fact – in every single news organization in the country now – about what a disaster, politically an economically – the ACA is.

            So good luck with that.

            And, by the way, the “GOP Plan” in MA was a failure… it resulted in longer wait times, fewer doctors, more expense and limited options for everyone.

            And the “GOP plan” in no way covered the now 13, 145 pages of how doctors have to function, who gets paid what, the cuts to Medicare/Aid or any of the operational details. All that happened because people like yourself aren’t paying attention and just spewing misinformation and distractions and performing not one bit of analysis to original thought themselves.

            So it seems that only one party learned a lesson.

            Too bad you haven’t.

          • calipidgious

            Exactly, they offer no alternative. What we have is their negotiation. Many, many people wanted a single payer option which is the way to go as far as I am concerned. The Rs freaked out and negotiated the ACA to what we have now. So…..the point is, they had nothing 3 years ago and they have nothing now.

        • Sandi Sorrell Niday

          Not all states expanded MEDICAID….more than half the states did not so a wide section of people will make too much for Meidcaid but not enough to qualify for Obamacare.

        • Gene Ramsay

          Shiree, Medicare is offered to those who qualify due to age…not income. MediCAID is for those who are closer to the poverty level.

          • FraggleSnooth

            Medicaid also requires you to fit certain demographics. In many states, an adult with no dependents or documented disabilities is ineligible regardless of how poor they are, unless they are pregnant or qualify for specific programs (certain cancers, family planning services, pregnancy).

        • Mickey Wn

          Forced healthcare & requirements takes away the freedom to choose. I’m self employed & my insurance premiums will go up 3x in Jan. I shouldn’t be forced to have maternity, etc. since I don’t need it.

        • Christopher Rant

          Get your facts straight. Each state does not have expanded Medicare, as it is an unfunded mandate if that program is expanded. 26 states expanded coverage. The rest did not.

      • KitnGal

        what you may not understand is that even if you don’t want to pay a bit more for health insurance, you are still paying for other people’s healthcare (visits to the ER etc) of those who have no insurance. 44 million people in USA are uninsured. We are carrying their health costs thru high rates charged by ins companies. the reason hospitals et al fees and insurance rates are so high and going higher all the time is because they are trying to make up for all the cases they treat and are not reimbursed for because of ppl who are uninsured. you are paying for their health care thru unregulated rates charged by ins companies and you have had no choice in the matter. no more. under AHC these costs are kept under control by the sheer numbers of people who sign up. the more who are signed up, the lower costs can be because the costs are shared by everyone and the ins. companies are being held ACCOUNTABLE as never before. they can no longer cancel your coverage or charge you exhorbitant rates. they can no longer cancel you when you are not profitable to them (like when you get very sick), they can no longer refuse you if you have a pre-existing condition, and they can no longer discriminate against women by charging them higher rates. it will all even out eventually. there are 4 plans to choose from and Medicaid in many states can also help people who think they can’t afford it. (of course 26 ‘red’ states refused federal aid to increase Medicaid to cover these gaps, thanks to their GOP governers). this plan may not be perfect but it is a Godsend to millions of Americans. To all of us. Wait and see.

      • Richard Felton

        if you have no job or very little income and plenty of dependents then you will benefit from obamacare…..if you are happy with your income and your insurance go ahead and kiss that good bye.

      • Mickey Wn

        IRS.gov says it can’t put a lien your home, etc. Just don’t overpay
        taxes or they’ll keep it! You will now have maternity, need it or not,
        male or female! Think how bad gay men will feel! LOL Most don’t realize
        on the most affordable plans they will have to pay a monthly premium
        & 100% of medications, dr. visits, (except preventive care) etc
        until they hit their deductible of $2,500+. After than is reached, they
        have to pay 50% of bill until out of pocket is reached which is $6,350
        pp. If the gov’t website is still down, you can go to NM site which
        should be similar. http://www.mynmhc.org/ These are the same hospitals
        for medicare/medicaid. They didn’t have a provider list. All other
        insurance plans seem to be on exchanges. Doesn’t matter what site you go
        to, they all seem to come back identical. I’ve been searching since my
        policy is being canceled due to ACA. I didn’t’ have maternity! Sorry,
        don’t need it. To have a comparable plan to what I have with the same
        doctors & hospital, it will cost my family of four 3x more than I’m
        currently paying. Hence, why I went to check out that lien thingy. LOL
        This is a disaster for those of us that are self employed & aren’t
        on group policies! BTW: I haven’t met anyone who is “blessed” by
        Obamacare. Everyone I know is either on a group plan or losing their
        insurance the end of December.

      • gschloff55

        Shiree, The one time I checked, if I did everything correctly, it showed that our premiums for two of us would be about $759 a month for the lowest tiered plan. Right now through my husbands employer we’re paying $106 per week or $424 per month, but….the insurance we do have sucks. High deductibles, co-pays, co-pays for prescriptions, no vision anymore and they’ve cut back on dental and other things. So what the hell are we paying for anyway? It’s extortion.

      • Daniel Driscoll

        You know when the economy died in 2007. Later on quit a few of the wealthy were drug across the coal and some even jailed. Well in a few short years, a lot of insurance providers are going to get the same treament because they are currently trying to curcumvent the ACA, Read the actual law, a lot of what is happening is illegal, but it will take awhile to weed out the bad just because of the sheer volume of this situation.

    • http://blog.nicholasmodesto.com/ DigitizedSociety

      Is your current plan and premiums set up as an independent plan or is it something you are getting through an employer?

    • Christopher Micheal Kinsey

      Healthy individuals can expect to pay more. Higher risk families can expect to pay less. Unfortunately, the people who are paying more are paying a lot more. Unless you’re poor… then the broke government will subsidize you… That’s what doesn’t make sense to me…

      • Preston D. White

        Where are you getting your info from. It does not make since.

      • Rachel Piotraschke

        I don’t know, I think there may be other factors involved. I’m a healthy young adult making $100k and my premiums only went up very slightly (and they were fine to begin with because I don’t have kids and am lucky to have a job with good benefits). Maybe my employer absorbed a lot of the increase? Anyway I think it’s a net win for me because my birth control copay went from $25/month to zero. Personally, I didn’t really expect to get too many benefits out of the law because I was already doing fine… the law wasn’t designed to help me, duh! And I’m totally okay with that.

        • Lee Flier

          Ditto. I haven’t been able to sign up yet due to the website glitches, but from the research I did it looks like my premiums will stay about the same… however I’ll have better coverage and more piece of mind knowing I can’t be dropped if I get sick, or have them jack up my rates beyond reason.

        • Sandi Sorrell Niday

          You will be fine unless your employer decides to stop providing coverage for employees or worse yet, fires people. If your premium did not go up then its likely because the employer is paying most of it.

    • Vicki Goodwin Robinson

      Were you elgible for the tax credit? If so, you can use that to apply to your monthly payments and it drops it significantly. We were quoted $503 per month but after applying the tax credit, it dropped to $48 per month. Also you can choose to apply as much or as little of the tax credit to your monthly premium, whatever you don’t use will be refunded to you.

      • Christopher Rant

        Actually, the “refund” is not true. What is your income?

        • Vicki Goodwin Robinson

          $32k per year. I have read about the credit and this is what I read:

          Premium Tax Credit
          This credit will be figured on the individual’s 2014 Federal income tax return and is based on the income reported on that return. The calculated credit will then be compared to the subsidy amount the individual received in 2014 to determine whether the individual will receive a refundable credit or have to pay an additional tax.

          The taxpayer will receive a refundable credit if the premium tax credit is greater than their subsidy amount.

          The taxpayer will owe additional tax if the premium tax credit is less than their subsidy amount.

          • Christopher Rant

            According to standard AGI formulas and subsidy amounts, you are getting over three times the subsidy in your quote that the law says you should pay. Tax credits under the ACA are not cash nor a full refund; usually they are targeted at one specific aspect of taxation and does not carry over to another. This is another wording issue people are not paying attention to in the ACA. But based on your average amounts, you should not be able to have a tax credit for less than $295 per month; that is your price after the subsidy. And remember, that subsidy is not your money or your right; it is being paid by someone else whose rates just doubled, or borrowed from china/tbills so it is unlikely it will exist for more than the two years (three for some classes) the statute runs for. It will come to a head in 2017, right after the next Federal election.

          • Vicki Goodwin Robinson

            My money has been robbed by the federal government for the past 14 years, I can guarantee you that money is MY money. I am just quoting what I was quoted for my family of 4. We did not enroll as my husband has an insurance rep coming to his job next week due to “changes”..I will find out all I need to know then. I appreciate your attempt to make me aware. And I will be sure to bring up some of these “facts” to hear what he says as well. I was also informed by one of the reps for a company within the exhange called CoventryOne, and they said that due to the govt shutdown not all plans were available to compare and they would be available after October 15th, so I think some things will change soon.

          • sarcasticcupcakes

            So any taxation at all is “robbery”? In that case, I want my money back for funding 2 wars I’m against.

          • Christopher Rant

            You just spent six times that amount voting for the ACA.

          • Sandi Sorrell Niday

            you can easily do your own calculations here

            http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/

      • Stacy Burleson Hudson

        So, it sounds like they will dock your refund whether you have insurance or not……since they are using your tax credit to lower the monthly premium…..sneaky lil SOB’s

    • Sandi Sorrell Niday

      I sell health insurance in FLorida and the premiums will be 2-4 times higher starting in Jan. I am recommending people get health insurance NOW if they can because most plans can be continued thru 2014 at a savings of up to 75%. Same plans, just less money…

    • http://www.disneymovieslist.com Jason Forthofer

      Your new rate is correct. Many people will see their rates double. Mine doubled too. Your basically paying for yourself and the other people’s insurance on here that say their coverage went down. They should be thanking you, instead they thank obamacare.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Amber-Costa/1664305570 Amber Costa

      Same here. We make only a little over $60K a year, family of 5 and our already choking out of pocket costs is going to go UP! If we keep the plan we have it goes up 25%, if we take the Obamacare gift, it goes up 90%, subsidies bring the Bronze plan back down to about $120 less than what our own plan will be BUT, we lose our HSA (that is a big deal!), lose the premiums reducing our taxable gross income (this as per the Colorado Exchange) and we gain a higher deductible! I spent 1 hour on the phone with Humana (our current insurer) and 1 hour with the Colorado Exchange, I learned from both, the person who wrote this article is the exception, we who are getting shafted, are the rule.

      The selling point for Obamacare… no more pre- existing conditions disqualifies you from coverage. Well what about us? We are real people too, barley getting by. We are not putting away money to retire, we will most likely work until we die. We have been good boys and girls had carried insurance, now at $460 a month with a 11,900 deductible, since we got married 20 years ago. How much has insurance paid out on our behalf over those 20 years, maybe $5K.
      I mean no harm and am not insensitive to those who have health issues, but why are we the ones getting hosed? This was the WRONG way to go about this. The FIRST thing they should have done is expanded the HSA program, NOT shifted the hardship from one group of people to another. Shame on the Dem’s, shame on Obama.

      Once more and more people realize they have been hosed, I feel and uprising is on the horizon. I am one P**** 51 year old momma!

    • Mitchell Bogatz

      I know I checked it properly and mine went up… It’s different for everybody. Like I said above, I don’t know how it will be in the long run and neither does anybody else to be honest :/

    • aimer

      No, you did it correctly. These people singing the praises are paid shills. There actually have been very few sign ups. The dumb thing is, these shills are all young (under 30) and don’t get that obamacare only works because they are paying for it. They’re not supposed to actually use it. They’re paying for the older generation who needs a lot of medical care.

    • Richard Felton

      you checked it properly. now wait and watch your premiums in the up coming months. they will double by next year.

  • gschloff55

    Wonder what the annual income of the lady in this story is.

    • Shiree Ames Goins

      Good point?

    • Christopher Micheal Kinsey

      Or what kind of particular medical risks she has. Insurance is about shared risk. If you are a high risk patient you generally pay more because you’re more likely to cost more. It’s the same thing with car insurance and people who have been in more wrecks…

      • Lee Martin

        now imagine now not being able to get insurance becouse you were in three car wrecks. AT any price.

      • Lee Flier

        Yeah, which is why a statewide pool is a good thing. The bigger the pool, the more the risk is shared and so the less it costs everyone (including high risk people).

  • kentuckywoman2

    Thanks for standing up and sharing!

    • Christopher Rant

      Veruca lied. She didn’t share anything but a lie.

  • April Dawn

    Interesting story. But I have BCBS and my premiums have not gone down only up. I also will be losing mine by the end of the year and Obama care is much higher than I was paying . I will not be able to afford healthcare now

    • DannyEastVillage

      troll

      • Guest

        You sir are a horrible human being.

        • April Dawn

          Thank you :) It is nice to see some humanity

      • April Dawn

        That is a very mature reply to someone giving information on their experience. I guess anyone who is not getting a better deal must be a “troll” in your opinion? I guess it is easy to bully and call names when you are not face to face.

        • Ricki W.

          But you have not applied and have NO IDEA what your costs would be going through the marketplace. Yet you are going around saying how it is “much more expensive”. So how about you quit lying and trying to make it sound like you know something you don’t?

          • April Dawn

            Rick how about you read the post below and not call people names. I used the calculator and I also spoke to someone who is a supervisor and my friend for one of the insurance companies. I also checked with BCBS. My premiums are outlined below and I will not sign up for them since they would be almost $500 a month with an out of pocket of over $6000 that would add up to an amount that would put me in the poor house. Take a look On FB on the everlasting gobstopper and see who the liar is. I have copied and pasted my premiums. I a in Florida! Not even my room mate who is unemployed can get medicaid and he has to file a hardship to avoid being fined! Funny how people like to call people liars who are telling the truth,

          • Sandi Sorrell Niday

            April, I sell insurance in FLorida so I totally understand and agree. Rates are increasing as much as 75% in Florida for certain age groups. A young man that could be paying around $80/mth will have to pay about $287 starting Jan 1. I am advising all healthy people to purchase their insurance NOW (or before Jan 1) because they will be able to keep the plan thru Dec 31, 2014 and still avoid any penalty. Pretty much same coverage. Of course people with serious pre-x conditions will not have that option. They will lhave to wait for the Jan 1 roll out and pay the higher prices.

          • April Dawn

            Thank you Sandi

            Yes I am not a young man LOL I am 50 a woman, broken l1 and l2 and had a few other issues. My friend works with the payment end in the insurance industry and she advised me to wait and see how things pan out 1st.I used a calculator that was posted before the 1st and another one she forwarded to me. I can not afford this mess right now. My room mate used the calculator he is unemployed and he would be paying Almost $400 with a $6295 If I understood him correctly out of pocket using the Bronze package LOL No income coming in ..so good luck right? He has been turned down for medicaid every time he applied , he tries every few weeks LOL I lose my coverage in a few months and my alimony next year. I will then be making under 26K so I will try again if it is still around and working well in 2015

          • Bobati

            what age groups are getting cheaper insurance? ….and what insurance company has 80/month insurance????

          • Sandi Sorrell Niday

            young people can currently get low cost insurance with any of the major insurance companies (Humana,UnitedHealth etc) if they are healthy with no pre-x conditions…..but they have to buy it prior to Jan 1 to get the lower costs….once Obamacare takes effect young people will pay about 3 times as much….if they buy now they can keep the low rate plan through the end of next year and the plan qualifies so no penalty is due.

          • Bobati

            I am a young healthy person with Anthem Blue Cross. My plan was originally 140ish a month now it is 220 a month. I called Anthem and they claim there isn’t any plan significantly cheaper anymore that I can switch to. (i think the cheapest was maybe 180 or something a month) Am I allowed to change to a cheaper plan with a different company or would i get penalized in some way for dropping my old plan?

          • Sandi Sorrell Niday

            you can change any time you want but the low premiums will only be available thru the end of the year…..please keep in mind it is not just price but consider the benefits in the plan…..the cheaper plans are plans that match the plans that will be offered on Obamacare……..most a $5,000 deductible.Try HumanOne or UnitedHealthOne.

            Do NOT cancel your current plan until you know you have the new plan confirmed with ID card in hand…..

          • Sandi Sorrell Niday

            I haven’t applied yet (I doubt many have ) but I have seen the rates in FLorida as I’m a health insurance agent in FLorida…..no one in Florida had rates go DOWN. only Up WAY up, as much as 75% higher for some age groups.

          • Ricki W.

            Even factoring in the subsidies?

          • Sandi Sorrell Niday

            the rates are the rates and they are about 3 times higher than the equivalent plan purchased right now before the end of the year. Now, some will get a subsidy but that is based on income levels and will be different for each person. If you have no serious pre x issues you should get your insurance now if you already know you won’t get the subsidy. you can keep that price all thru next year, Better plan, too.

          • Bobati

            so then why did this lady’s rates go down so low?

          • Sandi Sorrell Niday

            Her rates DIDN’t go down to that amount….her whole post is a lie…….If you read all posts you will see that many of us insurance agents who are certified with the Obamacare program asked her for specific proof and she has not…..The rates she reported simply do not exist…..

    • nothamomma

      I am curious why you will lose your insurance? Is this happening to everyone who has insurance through their employers? Gawd I hope not!

      • April Dawn

        I was a spouse and the company will no longer cover us. . A lot of companies are dropping their plans or dropping hours of employees so that they will not need to offer coverage.

        • SpiritOnParole

          Actually less than 10% of companies with over 50 employees claim they are going to do this. And unfortunately that is what the talking heads focus on. If I were you I’d talk to someone who is trained in how to navigate the ACA and not rely on “a friend” even if they are in the industry.

          • April Dawn

            She happens to be a supervisor and probably knows a bit more than a Navigator who has only 15 hours of training. As far as talking to even a help desk, or online chat even good luck. l am in Florida and the entire system is down and locked up. I will just take my chances and pay the $95

          • Kilkee

            Sorry to hear of your problems. But you have until March to enroll so hopefuly you’ll get some good news before then.

          • April Dawn

            thank you :) I think I will just pay the $95 and hope to not have any health issues for now.

          • Edward Read

            Actually it is not $95, its 1% of your income or $95 whichever is higher, so it could be higher then that. I’m not sure though if that is on net or gross income. In anycse, based on your income it could be as much as $450 or more, or it might be waived if you apply for a hardship waiver.

            As for Out of Pocket and deductibles, all plans have them, and I’m sure your current plan did. Out of Pocket Max for an individual is somewhere betweenn $6k and $7k, or for a family it is $12,700. That is capped by the law, and is not state specific.

            Some plans are less.

          • April Dawn

            Yes I posted that earlier. I did not have out of pocket deductibles with the old plan with the exception of my $5 copay or out of area deductibles if I was on vacation in another state.
            By next year I will be making even less since my Alimony will end. So I am better off just paying the penalty and taking my chances

          • Ricki W.

            That is too bad that you are losing such great insurance. We are stuck paying over $500 a month, with $6000 deductible for our family of 3, with an income less than $37000(and that’s actual income, not take home, and no alimony or anything on top of it)..it’s a struggle. But I’m just greatful to have some coverage.(oh, that is through our employer, we don’t qualify for subsidies since we have it-which is too bad, going through the exchange would have helped us quite a bit).

          • SpiritOnParole

            There are also lots of companies that are NOT making these changes that are also NOT making the news. Just saying. Even Disney is deciding to just make every employee full time or at least 30 hours and cover them. But you are not hearing anything about that, and thats a pretty big company.

          • April Dawn

            Well me being 50 and having a compressed l1 and l2 will probably not be driving 2 hours to Disney and I have a feeling I might be too old to be a Princess LOL I will figure it out and pay as I go for now

          • SpiritOnParole

            I do hope you can get covered. I do know how you feel. I am 41 now… but had cancer at 24 and have not had health insurance since then. I’m just happy to have someone willing to insure me now at all.

          • Richard Settle

            The argument that ACA is causing job loss is another issue that needs to be addressed. As a society health care premiums rose 131% over the past decade. Remember when you got a job (for those of us over 50) health insurance was part of the package. Since the rising cost continued on corporations and Small business cut employee hours so as not to be required to provide health insurance.
            We are merely bringing back the health care coverage we once had. By bringing the entire population into the insurance game we can return to coverage and still keep your life

      • Shiree Ames Goins

        Another interesting example is UPS has dropped all spouses coverage because of the new law. How many other companies will follow suit? I doubt this is beneficial to these families. It most likely only benefits the company.

        • theraven71

          That’s not true. UPS CLAIMED that was thereason but oonly dropped those spouses who work for a company that can provide coverage. If what you are saying is true, they would have dropped ALL of them and they didn’t. I don’t understand why people don’t question the thongs they’re told or why they automatically believe things without scrutinizing it first.

          • Christopher Micheal Kinsey

            Do you question everything you’re told about Obamacare by both sides? Have you read through any part of the document? Be honest because it’s a couple thousand pages long. With how many supposed subsidies the government is going to be handing out, I don’t see this as being sustainable… Because even without it the government isn’t sustainable… It just makes sense.

          • theraven71

            Yes I do question everything I’ve seen about the law and yes I have read through parts of the document because i wanted to see for MYSELF what’s in it. Also, I’ve read Factcheck and Politifact’s articles dispelling the myths about the law. Have you read it? Should I point you to links where YOU can read it? Because it seems like you believe that I’m some everyday uninformed schmo that doesn’t search for the truth about these issues.

            I have different opinion – I believe it is sustainable. The purpose of the individual mandate is to help with that. Now if you get rid of the individual mandate then they’re going to have to do something else and who knows what that will be.

          • Christopher Rant

            When you remove penalties for anyone with no federal tax liability (47.6% of the country) for not having insurance, you just disicentivised people from getting insurance. That means it is not sustainable. Also, when the deductibles are at $6350 ($12,700 for families) for ACA plans, even people on subsidized plans cannot afford the deductibles. So if they have to be covered for any plan they apply for, then where is their structure to keep them paying? They will still get the ER-based care and just buy insurance for the few months they need it of the ER system doesn’t cover it. They will never pay a penalty, they have no vested interest to be in the system, and they can use the system at will. That is the opposite of sustainable.

          • Christopher Rant

            Right now it is 10,156 pages long.

    • SKV2

      Please share the details. Obamacare is probably your ONLY option for health insurance after having BCBS — otherwise no company would accept you or they’d deem you to have a pre-existing condition and refuse to cover that care at all.

      • April Dawn

        This is not true. The new laws do not allow insurance companies to deny anyone for preexisting conditions anymore. I posted the details on facebook
        Here v

        https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=624223874296811&set=a.362561537129714.96045.360781383974396&type=1&theater&notif_t=photo_reply

        I also spoke to one of the Reps from one of the insurance companies who is part of the plan who happens to be one of my friends and she said yes, what I am saying is correct. We will have to pay the out of pocket and premiums before anything is even covered. She said to wait until next year 2015 since things are not really even ready and rates are not correct they are just quotes.

        • Bobati

          so is the lady who wrote the blog lying?

          • April Dawn

            Well. If you call BCBS they say there is no plan offered that is $85 a month..soo you decide. Several people on her FB page have called her out as well.

          • LittleBritches

            Its $85 with subsidy payments included….I have seen plans for as low as $36 after subsidy payment.

      • Bobati

        BCBS is blue cross blue shield. it is not a preexisting condition. this woman is saying her rates went UP even though she has the same exact insurance provider as the lady who posted.

        • SKV2

          Thank you for pointing that out.
          If the OP has insurance thru her job (sounds like might be the case, because she knows she’s losing it by the end of the year) then buying private insurance thru the ACA might indeed be higher since it’s no longer subsidized. We really need more details.

          • LittleBritches

            I read that if you buy insurance instead of getting through your employer plan then yes you do not qualify subsidy payment unless you can explain in detail why you do not want to employer plan and they accept your reason.

    • canucanoe2

      Bullshit. If you make up to 250% of the poverty line you will have a subsidy to help pay most of it. If you make more than 250% the subsidy is pro-rated to a lesser amount, but it still applies. If you make 400% of the poverty line you will have to pay all of the premium. If that is the case YOU CAN AFFORD IT.

      • April Dawn

        No not bullshit . Every state is different. Considering I make under 40K a year I can not afford it. I lost my job and have debt to pay. My small one woman owned business makes just enough for me to get by. My room mate is unemployed and can not factor into my plan or I would add him and we could apply as a family

        • Kristina Muskiewicz

          You make less than the 400% of federal poverty level required for subsidy ($45,960 is the cutoff for one person). So you are eligible for a subsidy. The subsidy does not depend on what state you are in.

          • April Dawn

            no i have alimony that just puts me over. that will end next year

          • Ricki W.

            So again, being disingenuous. With your alimony, your income is higher than what you are claiming. Again, I’m not saying you can afford it, etc, as all I know is what you’ve said, that you make more than the amount you tried to imply to make yourself sound better. Just why not be honest-and also make sure to mention that you haven’t actually applied, so you don’t know exactly what it would cost you. That might be easier than all the backpedaling to explain when people point out the facts.

          • April Dawn

            Try reading I already answered all of this. My alimony just put me over so that I do not qualify for subsidies.My alimony ends next year. Try again Ricki

          • Bobati

            okay we get it, she is rich, she can afford it. But the plans are so expensive under obama care that even WITH the subsidy, those of us who qualify would STILL be paying more than we pay now. That is why i really want to know how this lady managed to get such a low rate.

          • Bobati

            i qualify for the subsidy. And a silver plan under the ACA would be more expensive than my current plan even WITH the subsidy factored in (over 250 a month). I went to an obama care talk where they introduced these “low low” prices to us that were actually in my opinion, outrageously high. So no, even us subsidy people cannot afford it.

      • Kat Valleley

        Please don’t assume that anyone making 400% poverty line+ can afford their premiums to go up.
        My husband makes well over that, but we live in a very expensive area. We homescool our 3 teenagers so we pay $6k/year in taxes to educate other people’s kids and then pay to educate our own on top of that. Car payments, insurance, food. Heck with the cost of oil, heating our water for showers and dishes is costing us ~$3k/yr.
        Our insurance and taxes jumped $500/mo last year consuming even more than the money we thought we were going to save from refinancing our home so that we could finally have some breathing room.
        One of our bathrooms is shut down right now because we don’t have the funds to fix a leak.
        If our insurance goes up any more, we’ll have to sell our house. And everyone knows how hot the real estate market is right now. We won’t have enough equity left to even purchase another home, so we’ll end up renting. Which is gonna be tough with 3 kids and 6 pets.
        I’m very much hoping we can drop insurance altogether and go HSA only.

        I’m not saying that we don’t have it good compared to a lot of people, but 5 years ago we were making less, paying more for our mortgage and could afford to help others out financially. Right now, I couldn’t lend my best friend $50. I certainly can’t afford for my insurance to cost more.

        • April Dawn

          lots of people do not factor in cost of living and how it varies from state to state.

      • Bobati

        right, and since the prices outlined in the ACA are so high, even WITH the subsidy we would still be paying over 200 bucks a month for insurance.

        • canucanoe2

          Do you actually think that $200/month is a high premium? I’m confused.

          • Bobati

            Yes I do. And so do several others, since reading through the threads i have heard people saying “I am only a family of 2″ and “I am only a family of 3″ “and pay 200 a month. HOW OUTRAGEOUS!!!”

            I am an INDIVIDUAL, young, (mid 20s) and completely healthy…and pay 200 a month. If it is too high for a family of 3, it is definitely too high for me. I RARELY go to the doctor and my physicals are always completely normal. I basically have insurance in case of an emergency (like appendicitis). I sometimes think it might be cheaper to just not have insurance and just pay out of pocket for any emergencies that might come up. I can understand 200 a month being a good deal for someone with say, cancer, or diabetes, but for a healthy individual it is outrageous. When i first got health insurance a year ago it was only 140 a month. It went up nearly 100 bucks in a YEAR. This is not what i signed up for, You are lucky if you are rich and 200 bucks a month is chump change for you, but for some of us it is a LOT of money.

            sincerely, someone who is not rich.

          • canucanoe2

            Sorry, but my buddy was making $18/hr and had to pay $150 per week for his wife’s insurance. Yes she is 50, but that came to $600 per month. If you are so poor that you can’t afford $200/month, then you will be subsidized. If you’re not poor enough for a subsidy then you can afford it. It’s just that you don’t want to afford it. Yes, you are healthy, but what if you suffer a severs car accident, or develop one of those diseases that strike indiscriminately regardless of your age. Do you expect someone else to pick up your tab? Because that is what happens when young people have no insurance. Under the Reagan presidency there was a law passed that says all hospitals must accept seriously injured patients or patients at risk of death because of disease. Who do you think pays for those folks? The taxpayer pays in two different ways. First, the gov’t pays part of the bill for the care of non-payers and second, the hospital writes off whatever the remaining balance is thereby whacking the taxpayer again. How fair is that? Suck it up little girl and start acting like the responsible adult you like to think you are.

          • Bobati

            Like i said, the 200 a month is the cost per month AFTER the subsidy is taken into account, not before. So even WITH the subsidy it is overpriced.

            That was my point…that because the rates are so high, the subsidy doesn’t really do anything….
            now if the REGULAR rate is 200 and the subsidy brings it down to 50-100. then YES the subsidy IS making it cheaper and it is worth it to switch to an ACA plan. But since i currently pay 200 a month with Anthem and an ACA plan WITH a subsidy would be over 200 bucks still, then the ACA is NOT cheaper and it is NOT helpful. If anything it is just inflating prices more it seems…

            I am poor enough for a subsidy…but the starting rates are so high that the subsidy doesn’t make the monthly payments any more affordable than they were prior to obama care. In fact, a year ago i was only paying 140 a month. THAT was a tolerable rate to pay. Sadly, there is no obama care subsidy that would bring your rate down that low unless you were making say, under 7k a year, in which case i think you would qualify for medicaid which existed pre obama care. So my point is…the whole thing doesn’t seem to be helping anyone, and may actually be hurting some.

            I have car insurance for car related injuries.

            If i get a disease i can just CHANGE my health insurance plan WHEN i get the disease. It seems unfair to have to pay for a disease i MIGHT one day get. I will be happy to lump over 600 a month WHEN i get cancer. Until then, it seems really ridiculous to pay for a disease i don’t have. i would NEVER expect anyone to pick up the tab. I understand that 90 percent of people are disgusting, selfish, and irresponsible but please don’t clump me in that disgusting and reprehensible majority. If i had no insurance and had to have emergency surgery, i would just pay out of pocket with the THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS of dollars i saved from NOT having to pay 200 a month. if i started sensing that i was feeling sick on a regular basis, i would go out and BUY insurance before getting diagnosed.I have no problem paying 100 a month for insurance right now…but 200 is just too much, and now with obama care making it mandatory for EVERYONE to have insurance, i am screwed into paying 2600 a year just in CASE i might one day get a serious ongoing illness (which is doubtful since no one in my immediate family has any serious illnesses).

            And i really hope your friend is only paying 600 a month because his wife is in the hospital on an almost daily basis and it is worth it to him, because 600 bucks for a healthy individual, “old” or not, is OUTRAGEOUS.

          • canucanoe2

            Sorry, I missed the part about you getting a subsidy, but according to the politicians that are against the ACA, that’s your fault for not getting a better job or for not working harder, or not working 2-3 jobs. That’s not what I think, but it’s what the conservatives say ALL THE TIME.

            ” I will be happy to lump over 600 a month WHEN i get cancer. Until then, it seems really ridiculous to pay for a disease i don’t have”

            Really?!? That is like saying that you shouldn’t have to pay for car insurance UNTIL YOU HAVE AN ACCIDENT. Did you actually think about that before you typed it?

            You say that your insurance, before the ACA, went up from 140 to 200. That is a 43 % increase. Do you think that price was going to stay the same without the ACA?

            ” If i had no insurance and had to have emergency surgery, i would just pay out of pocket with the THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS of dollars i saved from NOT having to pay 200 a month.”
            I’m not sure you realize what things cost. I just had shoulder surgery. I slipped on the ice. The bill was $52,000. My insurance paid only $18,000 because that was the contracted fee, otherwise I would had to have paid the full amount. Plus $1,200 for the MRI and more for x-rays, prescriptions, about $6,000 for therapy and about a dozen office visits at $85 each. I also had a $15 co-pay for every office visit excluding the 3 post op visits that were part of the surgical fee. Whoops. I forgot that I contracted a post op infection of cellulitus, and spent three days in hospital getting IV antibiotics. I don’t remember what that cost was, but it was at least $1,000 per day. That comes to just under $30,000. It would take you about 12 yrs of non-payment for you to be able to afford that, so you better not slip, trip, fall or get knocked over in the next 12 years if that is what your plan is.

            As for your car insurance, you can save money by having your health insurance cover you rather than your car insurance. That savings could go towards your healthcare premium.

            Think about it like this. When you are young and have kids property taxes pay for your kids schooling. That senior citizen next door is paying for your kid. Is that fair? Yes because when the senior was young, his kid’s schooling was paid for with the pooled resources of old people too. With healthcare it works in the opposite direction. Young people help to defray the healthcare costs of older people the same way old people defray the cost of schooling your kid.

            OK. Maybe you don’t plan on having kids. Do you really want a passel of ignorant trouble makers running around your neighborhood” Remember, these are the kids that will be taking care of you as doctors, nurses, and other professions. It’s called societal responsibility. It’s either that, or become a hermit, and you’re too pretty to be a hermit.

          • Bobati

            I do work a billion jobs. And i am not complaining that i make too little money. i am complaining that the cost per month is too high for a healthy individual, period…even if that healthy person is a millionaire. You are basically spending money on NOTHING. for the most part, i NEVER go to the dr, not even for a check up. I had my first physical in YEARS as soon as my rate went up to 200 simply so i can feel like i am paying for health insurance for SOMETHING. Everything came out NORMAL. I took an allergy test, a GYN exam soon after…i am running out of reasons to go to the doctor. I think its stupid to have to pay so much for something you don’t even use! For me, health insurance is simply preventive and thus i should pay a preventive rate. but i am paying like a person who goes to the doctor on a regular basis.

            I wish we DIDNT Have to pay for car insurance. I wish that people were responsible enough to just pay out of pocket if they DO get into an accident and it is their fault and were responsible enough to cover the other car if they crash into another car. I wish that car insurance was an OPTION but not mandatory. Unfortunately there are too many untrustworthy people in the world and thus car insurance is mandatory. That sucks…but i have never EVER paid 200 a month for car insurance…not even when i was under 25. That is just an outrageous price. So even my car insurance rate is more reasonable than my health insurance rate.

            When i called Anthem they actually told me they raised the price in preparation for Obama care. Not lying, they actually blamed obamacare.

            So basically your insurance only covered less than half of the cost of your surgery…i could understand insurance being a good thing if it covered 80 percent or more…but when you are paying for insurance and have to pay THAT much if something happens, it just doesn’t make sense! You are still already out over 20k…what is the harm of another 18k at that point? Either way you are screwed it seems!

            “so you better not slip, trip, fall or get knocked over in the next 12 years if that is what your plan is.”
            it is really not hard not to injure yourself. Ive never broken anything in my entire life and i am in my late 20s. The only medical worries i would have would be things like appendicitis which seems to be random.

            No it is not fair that someone else should pay for my kid. I am strongly against having kids of my own and if i were to ever adopt i would homeschool or private school my kid. I think the public school system is horrible and i would never subject someone under my care to it. And i am not sure where you got the idea that all seniors pay property tax…not all seniors own property and owning property is a choice. . If you don’t want to pay property tax, don’t own property. Simple as that.

            But what you are basically saying is that I am paying overpriced insurance to pay for the people who are too stupid and careless to eat well and take care of their bodies. Now that is unfair. You cannot compare that to education AT ALL. While I am all for helping people get educated, I am not for enabling people who chose to smoke, drink excessively, and eat a diet of fast food. I understand that not everyone who gets sick is that way because of their lifestyle choices, but lets face it, a vast majority of people are, id much rather spend money helping people learn how to change their disgustingly suicidal lifestyle than have to pay for the medical costs of people who if they would just were smart enough to never start smoking, wouldn’t be dying of lung cancer.

          • canucanoe2

            The only out of pocket cost I paid were my $15 dollar co-pays. I did not owe a balance because as I said the ins. co. paid the CONTRACTED amount. It would appear you have reading comprehension issues.

            I live in NJ and we have one of the highest H.S. graduation rates and also high college attendance rates. If you are from a regressive southern or rural state then yes, your public education sucks, but it doesn’t suck here.

            If you hadn’t spent so much time trying to get your money’s worth out of your insurance you may have received a refund as so many people have since the 80/20 rule has been in effect. The 80/20 rule states that only 20% of premiums may go towards overhead and profit. The other 80% must be spent on actual healthcare.

            Of course your car insurance is cheaper you non-thinking moron. You wreck your car and it costs some thousands to fix it. You wreck your body and it can take hundreds of thousands to fix it. Jeez you are one dense person.

            I was trying to explain the issues to you in a respectful manner, but apparently you are just another ignorant teabagger type who refuses to listen to reason. I’m done wasting my time trying to reason with a person who denies their societal responsibilities, (45,000 people die each year for lack of insurance) and refuses to acknowledge the dire need for healthcare reform. Keep in mind that O wanted single payer, settled for a public option, and then resorted to the individual mandate,(a repuglican plan) because the repuglicans in the senate threatened a filibuster for those more reasonable plans. Jeez!

          • Bobati

            The bill was $52,000. My insurance paid only $18,000 because that was the contracted fee, otherwise I would had to have paid the full amount.

            See that is the part where i don’t understand. I do not know what a “contracted fee” is. I assumed you meant that your insurance only paid 18,000 because that is all it covered in your insurance contract. and you had to pay the remaining amount.

            No i am not from a rural place.The problem with public school is not so much the teachers themselves, but the students.

            I have not received any refunds. Like i said, my rate went up. I ONLY started doing doctors appts after my rate went up, and even then it was only 2 appointments and 2 lab visits.

            “You wreck your body and it can take hundreds of thousands to fix it.”
            First of all, like i said, my auto insurance also covers ER visits…so then wouldn’t my insurance be higher than my health insurance since it is also covering my body?
            Also, it is highly unlikely that i will ever develop any problems with my body that will cost “hundreds of thousands of dollars” to take care of. I do not have a family history and I don’t smoke or eat like I have a deathwish.

            I would be perfectly fine with socialized healthcare. But forcing all of us to pay out of pocket for super pricy health insurance is not socialized healthcare, it is simply the gov’s way to make the insurance companies richer. If we were really going socialized, health care would not cost anyone anything, it would be taken out of the taxes we already pay.

            But you are right, I do not believe in “societal responsibilities.’ We can try and try to fix society but people will ALWAYS be idiots. People will ALWAYS have kids they cannot afford, they will ALWAYS pollute the earth, they will ALWAYS join gangs, we will ALWAYS have people who think smoking is not going to affect them or that a mcdonalds value meal is well balance. People SUCK. Humanity SUCKS. I would be much more into this societal responsibility thing if we had some way to produce a society of worthwhile individuals, Sadly, so far as humans have been alive, i don’t think that has ever been accomplished, and i don’t think it ever will. I do not believe in making stupid choices like having a child you cannot afford and then relying on everyone else to help you pay for it. i don’t believe in smoking and doing drugs to your hearts content and then having the rest of society foot the bill for your medical expenses. I would LOVE to live in a society where people are so amazing that I am happy to help them in any way that I can, but sadly, people are going to make stupid mistakes whether you help them or not. It is not worth it to work your ass off because someone else made a stupid choice. Wow really, people die because they can’t access health care? WOW just like we have been doing for the thousands of years before hospitals were invented! We as humans live longer now that we have ever lived in the history of our existence (unless you believe in the Bible). I hardly doubt we were meant to live as long as we are. Back a few centuries ago, if you caught something, you just died. Yes it is AWESOME that we now have the ability to beat a large amount of diseases…but I hardly think it is our RIGHT to live to be 80. It is a luxury, and i am grateful for it of course, but I cannot agree that any of the luxuries we have today are anyone’s RIGHT. We after all, are animalis, originally created to live amongst other animals, without the luxuries of school, housing, and healthcare.. Health care is a luxury, I am so thankful for the existence of medicine, but I would not go as far as to say that we have a basic “societal” responsibility from birth. Society is a construct that we are forced into from birth. It is pretty unfair that most of us are given no choice in the matter. It seems impossible to live in the US and truly be off the grid…even though that is how humans were originally living. Perhaps it is possible in a developing nation…I do not know, but I would assume things like war would get in the way there too.

    • SpiritOnParole

      I think you should talk to someone to help understanding what is going on. You don’t mention whether you actually talked to your HC rep. The woman in the article not only provides detailed information on her plan but actually talked to her rep to make sure she was getting the best deal. The whole point of the ACA is they can no longer “hide” what care you are paying for making it easier to shop around and get better care for a better price on the open market. Have you shopped around and let your carrier KNOW you intend to shop around now?

      • April Dawn

        I can not even do that since being in Florida the system is now down. I will just pay $95 and take my chances for now

        • Marissa Wise

          Florida opted out of most of the provisions in the ACA. thats where the biggest problem lies for anyone in Florida. There are a high number of uninsured there too…and Gov. Rick Scott made his money in Health Care Industry…

          • April Dawn

            Thank you ..some people seem to think I am lying or making this up. Pretty sad that people can be so uninformed and rude

          • Marissa Wise

            Its Rick Scott that needs to be given some perspective. but definitely ask around for more advice for sure. Best of luck, i’m glad to be out of the control of Rick Scott…but being in Texas isn’t much easier!

          • April Dawn

            Thank you Marissa. Hopefully things will change in the next year or so. I am just happy that my sons were able to assistance from public healthcare in Maryland.

          • Richard Settle

            Rick Scott will not be here come November. That I am certain, even the conservative republicans do not like him. Hopefully we will catch up with the modern world when Charlie Crist comes back

        • SpiritOnParole

          I kinda did the *facepalm* when you said what state you are in. Yeah… I have a friend there I’ve been trying to help as well. All I can say is good luck. Here in Cali it was a breeze. :

          • April Dawn

            Yeah LOL It seems that being in Florida has added more problems.

        • Ricki W.

          Exactly. So you have no idea what your costs would be, even though above you said it would be much more expensive through the marketplace. SMH at the efforts people go through to TRY and make it look bad and spread disinformation. MAYBE(especially since you are in FL!) it’s true, but how about you find out before just making things up?

          • April Dawn

            Read above I have outlined the prices I was quoted with the calculator and BCBS is not down. If you read all the comments you can see lots of other people have confirmed what have have said is the truth, So try again before you call someone a liar! I just moved to Florida from MARYLAND. Read and you might learn something. Even better go online and put in another state and get some figures.

    • Shiree Ames Goins

      I am sorry to hear this April.

      • April Dawn

        I am hoping things may change in the next year or so. It could be a big help to many people.

    • Christopher Micheal Kinsey

      I’ve read through a lot of your comments and I just wanted to say it seems like you’ve got a good head on your shoulders. I hope everything turns out okay for you.

      • April Dawn

        Thank you Christopher, I feel like some of these people are just being aggressive since they just don’t understand the logistics of this plan. I honestly was hoping it would have been an option. But as it stands now , I will take my chances and wait. I would be better off putting a monthly amount aside for medical and take my chances once my current insurance plan is dropped.

    • chcurtis

      Nobody who already has insurance will “lose” it. If you are already covered by insurance, keep that plan. You are not being forced to buy insurance through the exchanges. “Obamacare” is not an insurance company. The exchanges are simply a place where private insurance companies can offer plans that meet certain standards.

      The only way you might lose what you have is if your employer decides to discontinue their employer-based insurance plan and send everyone to the exchanges. They have the right to do so, just as they could discontinue health insurance at any time for anyone. But that is something to take up with your employer. Offering an alternative is not “taking away” what you have.

    • Tapati McDaniels

      Do you apply for the tax credits? They can be forwarded to your insurer so your monthly premium becomes affordable. http://www.irs.gov/uac/Affordable-Care-Act-Tax-Provisions-for-Individuals-and-Families

      • April Dawn

        look below and you will see the very long thread under my other reply. I am not eligible since I am just a bit over the subsidy level. I live in Florida and we are screwed.

        • Sandi Sorrell Niday

          April, since you said you will be just a bit to much income to qualify for the subsidy…have you considered a home based business (like selling on Ebay) to get a few write offs? The income ants are what you PREDICT you will make in 2014 and are based on adjusted net income. Might make just the difference you need. As an agent in Florida, I was shocked when I saw the income tables for subsidy in Florida, knowing the Medicaid rules….I read that you have checked the calculator so try it again with a few different scenarios to see what your income NEEDS TO BE and I’m sure you can figure out a way to get that subsidy since you are so close….happy to help any way i can.

          • April Dawn

            That is a good idea :) LOL My business is actually out of my home. But maybe I need to be a bit more creative or look for some deductions I have not looked at. I am just a tiny bit over.

          • Sandi Sorrell Niday

            If you are within $1,000 or so, I would go for it! They are asking us to PREDICT 2014 income…..so predict away! I know you can find those deductions!

    • Sandi Sorrell Niday

      here is a calculator you can check to see if you will get the subsidy

      http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/

      I sell in FLorida and I’m certified to sell the Obamacare plans

  • shawn becker

    So, you are the one getting my premiums. My costs doubled for less coverage. But everyone is cheering that I guess. Yay for you.

    • nothamomma

      agreed

    • SpiritOnParole

      I don’t believe you.

      • shawn becker

        I don’t believe you work for a living.

    • WTexas

      In Texas my rates doubled. I might go cash and carry like I used to. I only go to the doctor’s for an annual physical.

      • Richard Settle

        That is because unfortunately, you live in a state that is not participating , I too live in a state like that. If your rates have doubled you need to look into the Federal ACA coverage, it may be the only thing left until you can change governors.

        • WTexas

          We had to drop coverage for our employees. Then I bought a plan for me and my family. I do make good money so that was no problem. I feel sorry for my people though.

          Most of my life before getting married, I never had insurance. I only do now because my wife insists. I believe in cash and carry.

  • franniemae

    is she getting one of those subsidies?? she’s not explaining why she’s getting a discount now… please clarify author!!

  • Wolfy Wolf

    ROFLMLWAO … you folks are TRIPPIN hard… Do you honestly think a CEO is going to take a pay cut because some law says ” Now, since 85% of all premiums paid to insurance companies
    MUST be spent on health care, those poor, poor executives might have to
    take a pay cut.” PUHLEASE!!!! You know whats going to happen? Premiums are going SKY HIGH so they can make the same money they did before it goes into effect!!! Thats the same as someone coming to you and saying “We’re taking 85% of your paycheck to cover this expense”!!! First thing you gonna do is whine cry and complain about it, then you gonna say “Well I can’t live on 15% so I demand more money per hour so I can get back to the money I used to have” … WAKE UP SHEEPLE AND SMELL THE BOVINE FECAL MATTER!!!!

    • canucanoe2

      You’re not too bright, are you? I think it’s really 80%, but we’ll use your figures, If the premium is $100 and ins co A must use 85%, then $15 is allowed for profit and overhead. If the premium is increased to $120, then the profit and overhead for co A will be $18. The problem with your logic is that the health care exchanges create a competitive atmosphere that forces ins co’s to keep their prices low. If ins company A’s rates are higher than ins companies B, C, or D in the exchange, then company A will lose market share. Why would someone pay $120 when they can shop the exchange for a $100 policy that has the same coverage? Barring price fixing by the competing ins. companies, the system will keep costs lower for most people. Sure, if you make a lot of money your rates might go up, but you can afford it. Sorry, but if you make more than 400% above the poverty line, you should be able to afford it. It’s called a FREE MARKET SOLUTION.

      • Richard Settle

        First, it is 80% and this new requirement has revolutionized the industry. Secondly, My question is why are so many questioning the program. Not trying to start anything up just wonder that if the ACA is not the same or more than you currently pay, what is the issue? Stay where you are. If you do not have insurance, you can now and it is less than it was a year ago

        The MOST IMPORTANT item is ACA is the ability to get insurance the same price as others who do not have conditions which would not be covered under the old plan. That alone is the saving grace of this law. No longer can those of us who have been hurt or gotten sick be denied health insurance.

        • canucanoe2

          I said it was 80%. I just didn’t want the conversation to go off track so I used Wolf’s figures. Otherwise we are in agreement.

  • Andrew Hoskins

    when will you learn, yes it helps few people like this case, but the majority of people will be loosing money on this, and paying more than they were before, making the really poor, poorer. on top of this if you are to poor to pay, they garnish your wages, take your tax return, and revoke your license, sounds like a horrible plan to me

    • Andrew Hoskins

      along side this, full time employees around the country are being cut to part time, so they will not be under there insurance companies anymore, forcing them to take obamacare, even though our representatives have 4 choices on healthcare, we only get 1 expensive one, it will crush the working/poor class

      • Andrew Hoskins

        and from my news article where i live tons of hospitals are shutting down from obamacare http://www.winfieldcourier.com/top_story/article_7204c4fe-2bec-11e3-b3da-0019bb2963f4.html since when have we wanted government in private affairs, just more rights being lost

        • Richard Settle

          They are not shutting down if they are not for profit. The issue is that one can go to a for profit hospital and pay $6k for a specific issue where as the not for profit hospital may do the same procedure and even have the same doctor for a lot less. This is where the ACA has stepped in and said no more taking advantage of the uninsured. Then if you have no money the hospital will put a lien on your house and with the ACA there is no such thing.
          Those companies knocking people down to 28 hours is what this issue is all about, Many people need jobs so the job pool is full. Now you can hire two separate part time people with no benefits as compared to one person with benefits. This is very good for the company and not so for the employee. I realize you may support big business and that is fine, no argument with you on that, though I do not support this. The issue is that over two decades ago all job applicants received this little perk until new drugs appeared on the market that cost a lot. New technologies came along with expensive tabs and the health care industry went nuts. Over the last ten years health care premiums went up 131% and this year for the first time are not going up as high unless you live is a red state but that will soon change also. Be patient my friend , be patient and you too will be appreciative

  • Shiree Ames Goins

    Veruca, I am glad that you have had a good experience with this. You are one of the ones who will actually save money. But there are also many who have an entirely different story. They can not begin to see how they can afford this Affordable Health Care. So, I hope that BOTH sides of congress can come to terms where the playing field is leveled. There are entirely too many “laws” written within Affordable Health Care for us to see the whole story. Only a few are actually making the headlines.

  • Mkayjay

    It would be good, if this wasn’t mandatory for everyone to have.

    As a family of 5, with only 3 of us covered the cheapest Ive found is 200$ with a 2500 deductible.& a 35$ copay,& we pay for any prescriptions.
    We don’t even do regular doctor visits. So we’d be paying for a service we rarely use.
    or pay the 1% tax plus the .9% tax on the tax if we don’t get it.

    We share 1 car(its a 2000), and live in a cheap apartment
    yet we’re considered middle class to the government.
    You’d think the 200-300$ a week in taxes should be good enough.
    ….sigh….Well,
    FoodStamps, here we come, assuming they’d give it to us that is..

    • Sandi Sorrell Niday

      On a ACA plan the max premium amt per month is based on 3 children…not extra premium for any additional children……….Plz check this calculator to see if you would qualify for subsidy. i sell ins only in Florida but happy to answer questions you might have

      http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/

    • Bobati

      that is REALLY good. i pay over 200 and i am only ONE person….not a family

  • Lee Bro

    Veruca, which state and plan are you specifically referring to that will reduce your premiums and save you money?

  • spiccillo

    It’s better to buy health insurance as a member of a large pool of buyers. On your own, your costs are extremely high. In a large group of buyers, they are lower, sometimes much lower.

  • David Tschoepe

    Where can I get a premium for $85/month with a $500 deductible? I’m in my mid 40′s and the premium for a low deductible plan with minimum out of pocket is over $500 a month. I checked it last night out of curiosity. I’m currently carrying no health insurance and prefer it that way compared to paying the rates Obamacare costs in CA.

  • Christopher Rant

    I smell a lie.

    After checking her math, The new premiums she quotes here are only accurate if she is a 32 year old female and makes at most $11,200 per year and switched to an ACA plan. Her existing BC plan would not change if she kept it. This would have to be a new plan. We need her income, age and subsidies, and zip code to verify if she is telling the truth. Nowhere in the federal published grid does it show an ACA plan reducing the deductible that low when the ACA legislates a $6350 deductible for an individual. We do not have enough information to verify her story, but it sounds completely made up. Please give us the full data so we can independently verify.

  • Toasty123

    The company I work for has 2014 open enrollment scheduled in in November. I work for a company with less than 5000 employees. My company pays a portion of our premium. Our premiums (my portion) will be increasing 20-30% based on coverage (individual vs family) and our deductibles are increasing to $4000/individual – $8000/family. Currently 15% of my monthly earnings goes toward premiums (…..I am a college graduate (put myself through college), middle aged and have worked my butt off since I turned 16). We are middle class, with our total family income just over $50k per year. It is frustrating to work so hard to have things taken away from us again and again. I was originally ‘for’ ACA as I was under the impression that it was good for everyone. Not so much anymore. I have never worked for a company that excluded eligibility for health insurance based on a pre-existing condition. However, after my dad retired my mother had a hard time finding coverage due to pre-existing condition. She was able to obtain coverage but it cost them greatly each month. Now they both receive Medicare but just received word that their prescription benefits are changing and their out of pocket for prescriptions each month will be astronomical.

    • Richard Settle

      This is true and the issue is that Medicaid part D is the prescription part of medicare, this was Bush’s deal and since introduced in 2006 it took two years before coming into a workable plan. Now it is so popular though needs to be funded. IT was the republican Ryan plan which actually eliminated the part .
      OBama has subsidized the so called donut hole helping a lot out of the debt. But the pharma companies have free control over Part D and ACA now has a fraud department set up to catch the charging for drugs not even used nor subscribed, charging for duplicate coverage, charging full price for a drug even though it went generic. ACA is addressing this also once the Republicans let us go and allow intelligent discussion.

    • Sandi Sorrell Niday

      If your employer plan charges you the employee more than 9.5% of your income for health insurance , you can opt out of employer plan and go to ACA and possibly get a subsidy. Here is the calculator

      http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/

  • Stephanie

    Okay ACA supporters, unless the President is using some kind of new math, the same amount of $$$ or less is not going to support healthcare for twice as many people. So for every person whose rates go down or are now covered someone else’s rates have to go up or coverage come down. It’s not rocket science, so please don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining. We will all be screwed by this deal except the President and Congress, because they were smart enough to exempt themselves. Shouldn’t that have told you something?

    • WTexas

      Exactly! Libs live in fantasy land. There is no free lunch people!!!! Someone is paying for your “subsidy” if you had any ethical and moral compass you would be outraged that you are making someone else work extra to earn your subsidy.

      • Richard Settle

        I agree about their not being free lunch out there but where did you hear ACA is free? Just wondering, I have not heard nor seen that. All I know is that if we all care about the world around us we can see that ACA will reduce the financial impact on us in the long run
        You current insurance was not under the 80/20 rule and that combined with you picking up indigent care drove your premiums.

        • Len Charette

          Some folks just don’t WANT to see the benefits. Young folks as with Soc Sec are not going to appreciate ACA now as much as they will when they are old. The insurers being held to a 20% profit is going to help with costs considerably as well.

          • Richard Settle

            Len, It is amazing how many people see a fresh issue and without any research take sides. I have always believed we need a two or more party government and I hate to watch what is happening now. Just a shame considering ACA will be very successfula and all forgotten within the next few years.

        • WTexas

          A lot of libs tought that this was going to be free or almost free. I knew better. Our company’s insurance went sky high in late July and we had to drop it. Employees were mad but there was nothing we could do. I bought an individual plan to cover me and my family and that was that. For years, we offered insurance to our people but thanks to Pelosi care, no more.

          • LittleBritches

            Being a Democrat….over the last 4 yrs I have not heard of 1 “lib” think that this was going to be free or almost free. And I know alot of “libs”. And its a watered down version of RomneyCare …since it was based of Heritage Foundations idea. The mandate was a Repb idea. Blame them if you dont like it and you should for them not engaging and putting better ideas forward into the ACA

      • KachitaB

        But if the people paying are a bunch of executives making millions each year (more than any family NEEDS to live on, and more than anyone is actually worth), why the heck should I care. Republicans want people to think that the average American will pay, when that is just NOT the case. I am so sick of the rich bitching about being a little less rich!

        • WTexas

          Who are you to tell anyone how much they are worth? We need millionaires and billionaires in the economy. They are the ones investing and creating new companies. If there is not enough employment in the economy it is due to democrats passing laws and regulations that dampen the economic freedom that we once had in this country.

          Republicans are for greater economic freedom so that more businesses open and more people are employed. Democrats want as many people poor and on food-stamps. That is how they gain votes. They want you dependant on them.

          You are falling for the ‘envy’ of the rich. Remember that you are rich compared to other people. So be careful when condemning the rich.

          • KachitaB

            I didn’t condemn anyone. I am simply withholding sympathy. Nor did I speak of anyone’s worth. I mean really, respond to what is WRITTEN and NOT what you choose to read into comments. The economy needs millionaires and billionaires to invest BACK into the free market, not horde their wealth. That should include wide range investments. But ya know, people like you want to get all high and mighty and run around with your panties in a bunch.

            I STILL MAINTAIN: NO ONE NEEDS MILLIONS AND BILLIONS TO LIVE IN THIS WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!

          • Bobati

            hmm interesting. You think millionaires should pay for everyone else. Bums think thousandaires like us should pay for their food….when does it stop? It must be so easy to tell someone else to pay when your money isn’t involved. Never understood that kind of self centeredness. you have no more right to tell a millionaire that he isn’t contributing enough to society to help the rest of us than a bum has to tell you he deserves your dollar more than you do.

            You might think no one needs to be a millionaire… a starving kid in zaire might think no one needs to be a thousandaire either.

          • Mark Thomas

            Yes, let’s all be poor.

        • Mark Thomas

          But from the comments coming from the people on these pages, Obamacare is making it easier for the middle class to be a lot less rich!

    • Richard Settle

      Hey STephanie. IT is not rocket science at all . But would you recognize rocket science if you saw it.
      The first thing is that , fact, where ACA is being implemented it is tremendously successful and the rates are indeed lower,
      Now this is not high level calculus but please give it a shot. The principle behind this is we take all of a specific gender and note that a person 27 pays a lot less than a person 60. So we pool all into one and come up with a payment for all in that category . This way, yes young people may pay more, this is the purpose of ACA. Now the person stuck in the older gap will pay less. This way the older can get a free colonoscopy in lieu of the public picking up the medicaid tab for colon cancer. You can now get treatment and have it protected the rest of your life in lien of medicare, medicaid, indigent care picking up the pre existing condition. See how it works. If you look at the world around you instead of the You and the world you must tolerate you will see the rocket scientist

      • Mark Thomas

        Rubbish!

      • Stephanie

        Richard you don’t know me or anything about me to even know how narcissistic I may or may not be. You have no idea of what I look at or how I look at it. So go ahead and jump on your liberal soap box and tell me how intolerant I must be, you might as well throw in racist too, isn’t that what your handbook says comes next? If you think you can shame or insult me into thinking your way, sorry but you are wrong. Nice to see your math skills came to the same conclusion as mine, the same amount of dollars spread among twice the number of people means some people are getting less for more money and some are getting more for less money.
        It if is such a great deal, why aren’t Congress and the President first in line to sign up?
        So, it’s two months later, how’s that ACA working for you now?

  • Tiredofstupidity

    Okay this is so much BS. You idiots have taken over the social medias and go to the best or worst extremes to make the other side look bad. Why the hell can’t you just try to report the truth and let the people decided for themselves. I am so tired of all this bullshit

  • rebecca

    I have military insurance and its high just for my daughter and me, and trust me it isn’t cheap. I pay 200 a month just for us two. It went up last yr at this time and Im thinking it going to go up again after the shut down is over. I also have to pay additional for dentist for the two of us. I make dirt compare to all of you. It barely covers anything when it comes to dr visits or anything else we have to do. She not a cheap child either, with the braces and the glasses and other medical issues she has had. I can barely find a job that I can make ends meet, so if I can get some saving it will be well worth it for me. Just saying. So I hope this health care does help and does work out for everyone in the long run.

  • Christopher Rant

    Veruca, your math doesn’t check out at all.

    In order to verify your story, we need to know what you declared as income (be truthful) and the name of your BC plan or the ACA plan you transferred to. Also your state (zip code if preferable), age, income.

    Because the only way you are paying $82 a month for a premium payment is if you told the Navigator that you make no more than $11,200 a year. If that is the case, then how were you paying the $811 a month before?

    I’m sorry, but without the specifics this story sounds completley made up. I cannot find a pro forma for any ACA plan in any state that alters the rates this much wtihout fraud from the applicant.

    So if you want people to believe you, please give us more information.

    • Sandi Sorrell Niday

      Christopher Rant, as an agent in Florida, I immediately saw the same as you….obviously a made up story. Unless, she can provide the evidence you asked for I think she is lying.

    • Mark Thomas

      Well, said, however, and sadly, plenty of people will believe her.

  • Ph33rlessC4t

    And my insurance rate rises by $700 per month. Lucky you.

  • jddeatherage

    So your premiums with ACA are subsidized. That you are paying less doesn’t mean it costs less.

  • jddeatherage

    I failed to read all the way to the end. This line tells me all I need to know; “Veruca | Co-Founder | The Everlasting GOP Stoppers”. This is a spin puff piece of questionable accuracy.

  • Christopher Rant

    Veruca, we are still waiting for some facts and data to back up your story, because nowhere anyway does any state have your conclusions as part of their formula. I think you are lying. Please provide verifiable data so we can check it out.

  • Jessica Zuehl-Miller

    I appreciate this article, and thank you for sharing this info with us. However, why on earth would you use the analogy of rape to describe the increasing health care costs over the years? Rape is a terrible part of society and part of the problem is that it is taken so lightly in the way people talk, act, and think about it. I believe your point could have been made without trivializing rape. Let’s face it – the cost of your health care does not equate to the cost rape.

  • Stanhope’s Bitch

    This is total bullshit. I have the same thing, and my premiums have not gone down. All Obama did was make the already GREEDY corporations put everyone to 28 hours a week, or just pay a fine for not insuring their workers. He should have passed a law like they have in Italy where everything is paid for through taxes. The right wingers call it “socialized medicine” but it worked for me over in Italy. People are healthier too, because they just walk into a doctor’s office and get medicine for their flu, etc… But NOOOOO, that would have been too easy. The Repubs wanted it before, and when the Dems wanted it, all of a sudden it was WRONG. Why can’t we just pay for healthcare through taxes like all the other countries do? We are the only greedy idiots in the modern world that have such a messed up healthcare system!! The next time don’t put in the column, “To my surprise, I was told” because it is not credible. Either you saw it in writing from your healthcare provider (and show us!) or it’s total bullshit just to convince us… Sorry to call you out like that, but….I’m just keepin’ it real…

    • Len Charette

      I believe what you are describing in Italy is what the President originally wanted ( universal health care ) but the Republicans wouldn’t hear of it so he modified the Romneycare they use in MA and they hate that too. It seems like what ever the black guy wants and might be good for Americans is just no good.

      • Mark Thomas

        Obama had a majority in both houses of Congress. Universal Healthcare was theirs if they wanted it. They could have passed anything. I suspect it was pressure from other sources, or their own shortsightedness, that led them to 2000 plus pages of rubbish.

        • LittleBritches

          Actually he only had the super majority for very short period of time due to Kennedy’s death and Al Frankens contested election.

          • Mark Thomas

            So, what is your point? It was during this period that they passed Obamacare. They could have written and passed the bill with any provisions they felt were necessary to make it successful. This is a pure Democrat monstrosity.

  • Bob Bedford

    Let’s also give a big thank you to Mitt Romney for prototyping ACA

  • Kristian Colasacco

    So happy for the author. I mean, it’s just awesome for you that a lot of our insurance will go up by a ton or are being forced to have insurance that they don’t want/need/ or can afford so that you can save money. That’s awesome. Socialism at it’s best.

    • LittleBritches

      Wow you need to read up on socialism…..don’t think you have a very clear picture of what it is.

      • Kristian Colasacco

        I get that you support the plan because you’re a straight-line party person and you do as you’re told but with all due respect, I don’t really give a damn about your opinion. I care about mine and how it affects me.

        And yes, this is socialism. It’s people paying for stuff they don’t need/want in order to offset costs for those that do.

  • Andy

    Typical. If Obamacare works for you then it’s okay but the fact is it will hurt more people than it helps. Have you done any research on this Veruca? Do you actually know the Affordable Care Act was written by the health insurance companies? Do you really think they wrote it to benefit you? Most people will be paying more for their insurance and receiving less care while the insurance companies laugh all the way to the bank. It will still leave 31 million people uninsured. The people that would need it the most are the ones who won’t be able to afford it even with subsidies. You might want to see what the World Socialists say about this bill because they tell you what Obamacare really is and who it benefits. It’s nothing but a FRAUD! Single payer health care is the only way to go and it would cover everybody! It’s sad when well meaning liberals get the wool pulled over their eyes:

    http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/10/01/pers-o01.html

  • chekyourfacts

    Ok, I read this article with an open mind but seriously what ACA plan is she listing info from? $85 a month with a small dedcutible? I’d love it if it were true but I went to WebMd thru their health insurance advisor program and for a family of 3 in PA it told me there are 4 plans (Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum). The Bronze level is still $315 a month and has a huge 10,000 deductible. The best plan, Platinum, is $646 a month with no deductible. These prices include the government subsidy. I mean they are more than double our costs now thru our employer. Heaven help us if the employer no longer provides insurance next year.

  • Holly Johnson

    I’m self-employed and currently pay $377 per month for an $11,000 deductible plan with Anthem. The plan is for myself, my husband, and our two kids. Under the ACA, the cheapest plan available to us is $738 per month, with an 10K deductible. We make too much to qualify for a subsidy.
    So, basically, the ACA doubles our health insurance costs.

  • Marylou King

    Yea well nobody seem to care about the ones like our family that pay $150 a week and our deductible just went to $9000. This past year how about our family we make $40 thousand a year and because we have health insurance through our employer we get no discount on insurance! So please tell me how our family is suppose to survive paying$150 a week on top of every DOCTOR visit because we have not met our $9000. Deductible but someone can make $94 thousand a year but since their employer doesn’t carry insurance they get a 8600 subsidy from the government! Really, someone please explain this to our family because now we are screwed and every dang Democrat senator in va just really could give a shit about my family all I hear how wonderful it is! well it’s not for my family and now for the first time in 25 year’s we are going to be without insurance because we can not afford it any more and we DO NOT qualify for help because we have a job with insurance! And sadly our President and the stupid Congress does not care!

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  • Gandalf47

    I find this article compelling, and it makes financial sense, based on my experience with personal and business health care premium increases during the past several years, leading up to the ACA. One can see that premiums have been rising at an insane rate for several years, then, all of a sudden, in 2012, they drop to 12%, which is still higher than general inflation, but low by comparison (the reason that they have been so high in the past – notwithstanding the greed of the large insurance carriers).

    I would like to use this as an illustration to counter claims by friends and family who simply reject and hate the ACA, absent any FACTS. Is there any way that you can substantiate the claims in this article?

    This is my first experience with your site, and you were referred to me by a like-minded and trusted friend. I trust her, and assume that this is a legitimate claim. However, I must subject these claims, as realistic as they appear to be (I personally believe that they are true) to the same scrutiny that I subject information that I often receive from the opposition, which is mostly UNTRUE.

    Can you provide any proof that the increases between 2007 and 2012 (and 2013) are legitimate? I will take them and run with them, if so.

    Thanks.

    • the ghost that never lies

      How much health care does the average American use every year as of 2012? Not insurance, but the total amount we spend on health care, divided by the total population? Well, its almost $9000 per person per year. The average person reaches this amount at about age 40. Think about that before you think that health care can be given out cheaply to the average person.
      As to what one means by a “legitimate” price increase, I would assume that an illegitimate price increase would be one that some other company would be willing to undercut if they were able to make a profit, but for some sort of overriding power that keeps them from doing so. In all practicality, that overriding power would pretty much be limited to government.
      Just don’t forget one thing about the ACA, before you think Obama is going to “stick it” to the nasty insurance companies. It was written with the help and support of the largest insurance companies; and it guarantees their continued profitability forever.

      • Mark Thomas

        Very well said, I liked what eyedrs54 said as well. Yes it looks like Obama made a deal with certain insurance companies. Possibly it was a deal made by the devil. If a single payer government run system is the ultimate goa,l then he will put these favorites out of business one day as well?

    • eyedrs54

      This only makes sense if you are one of the people being subsidized by people like me (more so then even before). The ACA was passed in 2010 any premium increase since then must be removed from your calculations b/c of how companies plan for the future.
      I opened the letter yesterday; my family premium went from 378 a month to 676 a month that was from August 2013 (when I renewed my year) to what they said it will now be Jan 1/2014.
      I will add this, I am a doctor and unfortunately have to deal with insurance all the time. I have not seen or heard of any persons premium going up 700% from 2007 to 2013 (even with the ACA being factored in from 2010 on). Something changed in this persons life possibly (ie has cancer ect) but more likely I suspect some misleading. Based on what she said her own plan covered her premium had no reason to be that level for a healthy lets say 40 year old woman. In MN a BCBS plan for a 40 year old woman with that kind of coverage ran about 200 a month and in MN BCBS is the best but most expensive carrier. There are a lot of irregularities in what her premiums are and what her coverage was. I can’t say she is being untruthful but I think the whole story is not being told here.

  • Kevin Vance

    These figures depend on who you are and how much you earn. I am middle class and have a comfortable income (not six figures). My premium will double based on our family income. So, what that means is the numbers above are only affordable for this person because my family is covering the rest. I want you to be taken care of, but not necessarily because I am forced cover your medical care.

  • Bobati

    that doesnt even make sense. none of the silver gold or bronze plans on obama care are under 200 bucks a month. how did you manage to get it down to 85 a month? what did you ask on the phone? and were they changing it to 85 automatically or did you have to call for them to change it? i want to call too now since i also have blue cross but i dont want to go in just saying “i heard some lady on the internet got a super great deal”

    I just logged into my account and my monthly bill is still the same as last month :(

  • Bobati

    Has anyone tried emailing Blue Cross and asking them how this lady got this deal?

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  • eyedrs54

    I would like a screen shot of her new benefits that she “knows” will reduce her cost. My premiums nearly doubled. What she seemed to forget was that the ACA was passed in 2010 so since 2011 health insurance companies have been building the cost into the premiums and from 2010 to 2013 is when her premiums increased the most…but liberals don’t get that. She also must be getting a subsidee. Further based on her cost savings she would have a “platinum” plan, I will like to see a follow-up post once she actually uses that insurance to prove the savings she is “guessing” on. There are several red flags in her comments that make this seem “doctored” if you will.

  • Guest

    Wow…you are very fortunate!! We’re also self employed, and our premiums will be doubled and out of pocket significantly higher. I don’t know how we can afford the “affordable” care act.

    And I realize some people reading this will infur that since we don’t qualify for subsidies, we’re rolling in dough. Not true. We’re in an expensive part of the country. I’d love to show you my families budget…no trips to disney here. What will get cut is our savings and ability to pay for our kids’ college and fully fund our own retirement.

  • Mr Realistic

    Lol , the reason they are not crying is because someone else is paying for their health care now and they have nothing to cry about . Judging by the way the ended their comment I can visualize what kind of person wrote it . Am I crying ? Yep because I know I am going to one of the many tightening my already extremely tight belt so some else doesn’t have too . Until we are in the world book of records for the highest debt ever in the world these goofy f…ks will all be happy , then they will cry ” how did this happen” ? But unfortunately it will all be Bush’s fault or at least in the eyes of the takers it will be.

  • upchuck9899 .

    I really hope this whole system fails. A person who makes 150k a year should pay the same as a person that makes 20k. If a person wants a car does the price change depending on who’s buying it?

    If your rich enough to afford a doctor to be flown in specially for you then good for you.
    IF your not making enough then get a degree, go to a vocational school and learn a trade. get a part time job, don’t pop out kids you can’t afford,

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Amber-Costa/1664305570 Amber Costa

    We are getting hosed. We make only a little over $60K a year, family of 5 and our already choking out of pocket cost to be insured is going to go UP! If we keep the plan we have it goes up 25%, if we take the Obamacare gift, it goes up 90%, subsidies bring the Bronze plan back down to about $120 less than what our own plan will be BUT, we lose our HSA (that is a big deal!), lose the premiums reducing our taxable gross income (this as per the Colorado Exchange) and we gain a higher deductible! I spent 1 hour on the phone with Humana (our current insurer) and 1 hour with the Colorado Exchange, I learned from both, the person who wrote this article is the exception, we who are getting shafted, are the rule, at least that is what they are experiencing.

    The selling point for Obamacare… no more pre- existing conditions disqualifies you from coverage. Well what about us? We are real people too, barley getting by. We are not putting away money to retire, we will most likely work until we die. We have been good boys and girls had carried insurance, now at $460 a month with a 11,900 deductible, since we got married 20 years ago. How much has insurance paid out on our behalf over those 20 years, maybe $5K.

    I mean no harm and am not insensitive to those who have health issues, but why are we the ones getting hosed? This was the WRONG way to go about this. The FIRST thing they should have done is expanded the HSA program, NOT shifted the hardship from one group of people to another. Shame on the Dem’s, shame on Obama.

    Once more and more people realize they have been hosed, I feel an uprising is on the horizon. I am one P**** 51 year old momma!

  • Jennifer

    I hope your happy that millions of Middle class & working poor Americans are paying for u to save 10,ooo/yr. Are you proud that you are stealing money from other peoples kids and families who are struggling right now. My husband & I only make 42000 combined. We have a house & car payments & are struggling to keep up with that. My husband is fixing to loose hours at work & get cut to 29 hours because of Obamacare. Which means less money for my family. Also I have been kicked off his insurance so now not only do I have to buy a separate plan for my self or be fined (Obamacare) we are losing wages. So now my family is going to have to choose between a house, a car, or putting food on the table so I hope you enjoy the money you are stealing from my family.

  • Matt

    Just because ONE person’s premiums go down isn’t cause to cheer for Obamacare. Here’s the issue in a nutshell.

    Simple math – While YOUR premiums went down, many others have gone up to help make up the difference. It used to be that sicker people would be charged higher premiums because they needed to use the service more. This is similar to the idea of people who are bad drivers having higher rates…because they are more inclined to get tickets and have accidents so the insurance companies need to charge them more. Same thing with health insurance. But now that’s not the case and it’s completely unfair to those who are healthy.

    So while the idea that everyone can get healthcare is a nice idea, it’s a socialistic idea that is being FORCED on us and specifically ME – it’s taking away my American rights and freedoms and forcing me to support others – it’s socialism. I cannot think of any socialistic program that has worked out for the benefit of individuals.

  • joe

    Well I received letter from my insurance company today informing me my current plan is no longer available after Jan1 due to the new ACA law. The new plan my premium increases from 500 to 702 a month and the deductables and copays also increase compared to my current plan. This new plan is no where near as good as me current plan. The president flat out lied when he said u could keep your current insurance and that the average savings would be 2500.00. Just another way the democrats are killing the middle class

  • lori walker

    Yeah, I am also self employed and have had blue cross for years. I also checked with them last monday to find out my rates will double to keep my current deductible, nothing covered before deductible, and an increase in out of pocket. I cant even get insurance for my five year old for $85 so you might want to double check your numbers there. For my family, through blue cross, (as the federal website is inoperable) insurance will cost us $10,000 per year and cover nothing. We make $23,000 per year right now because my husband is in college. So I was hoping something called an affordable care wouldnt take 50% of my income, because with new rates, yeah, my family will be uninsured because we dont spend $10,000 a year on healthcare, therefore making insurance pointless. And those premiums i might add have a 12,600 deductible before anything other than preventative is covered.

  • the_immoral_minority

    What a load of bullschit

  • Lou

    What the author failed to mention is if you look at the premiums on the blue shield they double in less than three years. In three years you won’t be able to afford your premiums, you won’t be able to afford your deductible you will be in far worse shape then you are now. You also have failed to mention most if not all lost their primary doctor. If you didn’t count yourself lucky. Sigh if the experts can’t tell you how horrible this is then there is no hope.

    • Mark Attebery in Texas

      they have more than doubled since the Prez started his aca in 2009 campaign… before that it was 1 to 3 % a year.

      • Lou

        Yes they have what I’ve worked for my whole life is slipping away.

  • i9517crew
  • KitnGal

    my experience with health ins. was much the same as yours. turned down multiple times because of an old Rx(no longer using) for migraine. finally landed a catastrophic policy which took all my income and paid absolutely nothing except my yearly mammogram. I was going broke paying for benefits I never received. insurance companies are notorious for raising rates and mine kept climbing every year until AHC went into effect. now I can no longer be denied. rates have decreased. Thanks to Obama. Tea Baggers want ‘less government’ but what they don’t tell you is they want to take away the benefits the government provides for you. SS Medicare Head Start etc. These are all programs that are essential to the lives of millions of men women and children who are less fortunate that the rich politicians trying to take hat little they have away from them. Do not be fooled by their lies (euthanizing granny!? seriously). They are afraid of seeing Obama succeed with the AHC because they have failed for DECADES to give you anything better!

  • Mark Attebery in Texas

    Please show me these rates after you actually have started the new insurance and have started paying your premiums.. I am 56 and not one time in my entire life have I seen any government program (NOT ONCE) come in at projected rates.

  • Christopher Rant

    Veruca – no matter how the coversations below diverge, the fact remains that you have given us no information to verify your story. By all empirical measures, it seems you are lying to people.

    Please give us information to verify the story: state, name of plan, age, income at the very least. Because no thinking person can possibly believe your story without real facts behind it. It appears you are lying.

  • Shakezula

    Yeah, the tea party and republicans are all about high insurance rates and corporate greed.
    The real reason we oppose this program is because we know it is unsustainable. Just like Medicare and Social Security, ACA will very quickly run out of money.
    We see it as another nail in the nation’s coffin.

  • Mitchell Bogatz

    You’re one of the lucky ones… My premiums went up under Obamacare because the company I worked for stopped honoring their healthcare programs because Obamacare was more expensive for them. Still, I’m not sure how it will turn out in the long run and neither is anybody else here to be honest.

  • Denise Rolland

    THANK YOU!! My husband hasn’t even been able to get healthcare and I know of people that have paid those high premiums only to be turned down for treatment when needed!!

  • RJ Wagner

    This rube’s healthcare premiums went up $50 between 2007 and Obama’s 2008 election. From about the time Obamacare was signed into law until now, her premiums went up about another $400-$500. Her premiums have now dropped by $85/month, and she’s happy.

  • Jake

    What you guys fail to realize is that this health care provision was written by the health insurance companies. Yes, provisions are needed to insure those who can’t be insured, but if you take a look at the market it shows that health insurance companies, from the time of signing the bill to now, are up over 100% in share price in almost every case. The sad fact of the matter is that those who are middle class and above will be making substantially larger payments with less government subsidies. (The numbers point from 7%-9.5% of total income.) In my case, my premiums went up 114%. What this act is all about is taxing the rich and giving to the poor. Yes, it is a good thing morally, but in the real world things work differently. Every form of socialism has failed to work in the long run. The CBO, Congressional Budget Office, says that health care spending will increase 651 billion over the next 10 years, and that the act did not slow it down, but rather speed it up. The sad fact of the matter is that the ACA exempts people paying more than 9.5% of their income in health insurance. Meaning they can go and find a private insurance company. While they will probably pay around 8-9% anyways they will not be paying it under the ACA. Meaning that this pseudo tax will have to fall on the people who fall under the 2-9.5% of income range. I mean why would a upper class person pay more for health care insurance when he can pay less and get better care? I forgot to mention that this percentage of income does not include deductibles or anything else. My previous insurance offered free health check ups and other various services free of charge. The plan (Bronze) that is the cheapest offers nothing to this extent. I am going to pay outrageous amounts of income for health care that is worse, and the worst part is I am a healthy man with hardly any health risk in family history. Not to mention this number is going to increase in the next 10 years. I am carrying the burden that I can barely afford because the rich themselves are exempt. EVEN the politicians refuse to go on the plan. I guess I can live with this if it means that others are getting insurance they couldn’t before, but the thing that angers me the most is that they aren’t making it out to be a tax, but rather the farthest thing from it, which in the end is going to hurt our country and consumer confidence. The middle class is by far the largest class and it is now being hurt by the minorities. You all speak about the Republicans as screwing everything as the minorities when in fact that is what this law is doing. Do you think Obama is going to pay personally for this plan? I encourage you to research this and look at the politicians health plans. If they really wanted to tax the rich and give to the poor they would encourage it themselves and make it out to be a tax and not have the burden end up on the middle class.

  • JM Magilla

    Now I see why my premiums are doubling for 2014. We get to help subsidize your lower rates…Great!

  • Touchet

    I would be interested to see the terms of this agreement that you think will save you all this money. We signed up for a similar one through BlueCross, and almost NOTHING is covered, especially any type of advance testing. Basically it is only a once a year doctors visit with basic testing. So I can go see the doctor for 15 dollars, but if he orders any testing done, the insurance doesn’t want to pay for it, cause it doesn’t meet their criteria for testing (that has ALL changed all of sudden).

    This is especially true with symptoms that cover a wide range of disorders. If the doctor orders a test and there is no specific symptom that pinpoints the disease, then the insurance won’t cover it. It if comes back negative, you end up paying for it. It used to not be this way under the more expensive one. If they don’t pay, it doesn’t count toward your deductible or out of pocket maximum. In addition, even if they DO PAY, certain things DO NOT COUNT toward the deductible.

    In other words, you will end up paying MORE in the long run. The sentence about lab work, ect… only costing 15$ is especially appealing. What are the conditions surrounding that? I bet it only covers one x-ray per decade or something along those lines, where it used to be that you paid 20% of the x-ray and that went to your deductible. Now you co-pay 15$ for one x-ray every decade, any other x-ray that doesn’t lead to a diagnostic will now not be covered.

  • Kidney

    For me, premiums and deductibles are increasing and less choice in prescription drugs (only generics)… Not sure how much premiums are going up, will know by next week, but deductibles are going up from $0 to $500.

  • Kidney

    Take a look at this: Obamacare’s Website Is Crashing Because It Doesn’t Want You To Know How Costly Its Plans Are

  • Kidney
  • K Fahn

    I would like to know if you checked through the healthcare.gov website. My premiums almost triple, as do my deductables. Sounds to me like you are not telling all the facts.

  • Mickey Wn

    Lies!,, my Blue Cross will go up $1,000 a mont for me family of 4. Post your paperwork from Blus Cross. I’m self employed & this is killing us.

  • Loraine Ariss

    I was just watching Sean Hannity on Fox news he sure is trying to tell a diffrent story . So this is what I find on the internet. A person telling the truth and showing the proofs in the pudding. I will be calling my insurance companies tomorrow to get the truth.

    • Shaun Chapman

      What proof I didn’t see a bill. That pricing is very close to my company provide insurance exept my dedutable is lower. I just dont believe it unless she is getting a huge subsidy. But she has to make to much if she is single paying housing, car and 10k a year in insurance

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  • Richard Felton

    if he aca is such a good thing then why does it have to be law? i have been laid off from two jobs because of aca. the people that did keep their jobs had their premiums double. why not just regulate the insurance company instead of the citizens. sounds like good deal to me.

  • Randy Archer

    The ACA, aka “Obamacare”, is the first time that the federal government
    has required an individual to purchase a product from third party, under
    penalty of law, when the only prerequisite for being forced to purchase
    the product is that the individual merely exists. That essentially
    makes it an existence tax. It is the biggest tax increase in history and
    is fundamentally different then anything else this country has ever
    seen.

  • Sander Barber

    Somewhere along the way (*cough* Reagan *cough*) the GOP philosophy went from stern Father Figure whose still understood “There but for the grace of God go I” to a completely abusive drunken parent going “I got mine, scr*w you”.

  • Pat

    Sorry, but I don’t believe if you are now paying $811.00 a month with Blue Shield that you will now pay Blue Shield just $85.00 a month! That’s almost laughable. You must not be making any money at your job and getting a credit back from the government to receive the insurance for 85.00! lol

    • Mucksony

      Idk about this article, but my super conservative Uncle had to eat his words and is paying less than half of what he used to pay and can even afford to add dental now thanks to the ACA. He was shocked to say the least.

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